[MR2] MR2 news from Top Gear

[William Brandt]

Joel - I think first that the older Subies (I assume you have a WRX) are 
more "pure" and the newer ones have fallen to more weight, electronics, etc.

Also - not all newer technology is bad - I was thinking of the absence of a 
traditional ignition distributor in most newer cars - you have fewer moving 
parts, one less thing that rotates at 1000s of RPM (and eventually goes), 
but in it place you have a computer-controlled firing into each coil now on 
each cylinder.

So it is a mixed bag.

The original Mercedes fuel injection was mechanical - drawn straight from 
the aircraft technology (as is ABS), and it was purely mechanical .with an 
injection pump that was a work or art. It was about 8" long and literally a 
miniature engine - pumping the fuel to each cylinder. The newer electronic 
injection systems - and there are many generations of these - the newest 
being direct injection - are far more economical and produce more power.

Then too we have cams that are variable timing (essentially a sophisicated 
gearing system that advances the lobes with higher RPM) - more efficiency 
but still more to go wrong...

I guess what gets my ire is all these ":do-dads" that the market apparently 
demands that creates more potential big repair bills.

Car seats, alone, have heating and cooling ducts for your butt, inflatable 
bladders, etc...

A friend of mine in the auto upholstery business said that they can't even 
safely remove seats anymore for fear of screwing up some setting in the 
computer. Certainly it can be done but not as easy as our MR2s ;-) 4 bolts 
and my seat is out.

I think buying most new cars is a sucker's bet unless you have a ton of 
money - or lease it (essentially renting it; paying off the depreciation as 
you use it).

Look at a new Lexus at $70-100K - and look what its worth in 3-5 years. 
50%-75% less...

Bill
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joel" <priamyd at comcast.net>
To: "William Brandt" <wbrandt1 at sbcglobal.net>
Cc: "MR2 List" <mr2 at mr2.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 24, 2010 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: MR2 news from Top Gear


> Bill,
>
> I was looking over a friend's 2009 Impreza compared to my 99 Impreza. 
> Despite the fact that they're using basically the same engine, the newer 
> models produces a WHOPPING 4hp more than my 99.  And yet with the newer 
> car you have electric throttle, a car payment, higher insurance costs and 
> a heavier vehicle, etc.  Now, I'm somewhat glad that Subaru is sticking 
> with proven technology, but its insane that the price of getting a new 
> car, you really do not get a whole lot more than the same basic car from a 
> few years ago.  Hell, I'd sooner get an 02 Impreza Wagon, have a far 
> smaller car payment (if any at all), a lighter car, a real throttle 
> cable - and with the cash saved, you could go out and upgrade the brake 
> pads and tires!
>
> BTW - The injectors used in the 4age are 'L-Jetronic' type developed by 
> Bosch. :)  Its detailed in the BGB, which is the only reason why I know, 
> but I was looking into retrofitting the Toyota Venza injectors onto a 4age 
> of 3sge.  Whereas the 4age injectors have a single nozzle to atomize the 
> fuel into the combustion chamber for even burn, the Venza injectors have 
> 12 nozzles.  Last I recall, the Venza uses direction cylinder injection at 
> something close to 2000psi in the fuel rail.  Upon quick inspection, it 
> does not appear that physically, they would not fit on either end - but, I 
> am not 100% sure.  But, I do not know if they would operate properly at 
> the low psi level that the factory AW11 fuel pumps operates at.
>
> As you might've determined, I am no mechanic or engineer.  Just someone 
> with wild ideas that I try to chase down. :)
>
> As per your problem, the first thing I might try to see where the problem 
> is, is to take a voltmeter to the connector for the cold start injector. 
> If it does get proper voltage when power is applied, then test to make 
> sure the injector itself isn't frozen.  Beyond that, have you double 
> checked the fuses?
>
> I've done a lot of reading on the AW11 - I've heard that the AW11 chassis 
> was originally a Lotus design, but they abandoned it.  Also, a lot of 
> people hold fast that the 4ag(z)e is a Yamaha design, but everything I've 
> read has stated with absolute clarity that it is a 100% proprietary Toyota 
> design - the 3sg(t)e on the other hand was co-developed by Yamaha & 
> Toyota.  Though, if you take a quick peek at the Ford BDA engines, you 
> will see the roots of the 4ag(z)e.  In Ford speak, BDA = Belt Driven A 
> series engine.  Regardless of displacement, the 4ag/3sg/7mg/2jzg (and 
> similar) are all BDA type engines - the 20r/22r being chain driven, would 
> classify those types of engines as not being BDA type engines, for obvious 
> reasons. :)
>
> Back on topic, I'm not happy with all the technology that its forced into 
> newer cars.  I prefer to be simpler and less reliant on an integrated 
> circuit working properly 100% of the time in order for my car to start and 
> run.  Although, this would help to explain why I do not like the idea of 
> owning a car with forced induction - too many things to go wrong. :)
>
> In all the years that I've owned my AW11 or AE86, or friend's AW11s - I 
> have never fallen victim to a frozen alternator.  A worn alternator, yes, 
> a few times where the brushes wear out - replace them and you're on your 
> way down the road.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByHPW-eo7G4
> Part 1
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPi7vRk9vjw
> Part 2
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_5S5N9H_ZY
> Part 3
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBjmiN008jY
> Part 4
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-iQvDZ6ix0
> Part 5
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhOeGX2FieY
> Part 6
>
> The above links are for a show called 'Wheeler Dealer' that broadcasts in 
> the UK and on BBC America.  Those 6 clips make up the whole episode and 
> they do touch on the alternator bearing problem, so give it a once over. 
> :)
>
> - Joel -
>
>
>
> William Brandt wrote:
>> Joel - I am somewhat of a Luddite with car technology too. Am proud to 
>> say both my old cars - both 86 - don't even have a diagnostic plug.
>>  I do have a cold start problem with the MB and the Bosch CIS injection 
>> system. Runs fine when warmed up but I don't think the cold start 
>> injector is working. And I don't even know if the most modern car with 
>> the OBD diagnostic system would help anyway - could be anything from the 
>> fuel pump relay to the cold start injector to a little thing on the back 
>> of the fuel distributor that varies the pressure.
>>  With my current finances a shop would be out of the question but to tell 
>> you the truth even they will sometimes throw parts at the problem (after 
>> some intelligent guessing).
>>  Technology being what it is even my father's 2000 is old tech now.
>>  The mr2 is really pretty simple. Never had any problem with the 
>> injection system - well, perhaps one when a piston burned up - and I 
>> suspect from a semi clogged injector - but that is really the only major 
>> mechanical problem. Other than the 1st 4A-GE destroying itself from too 
>> much carbon. BTW read that Lotus may have had a hand in designing that 
>> engine.
>>  I heard that the injection system was a Nippondenso copy of a Bosch (who 
>> pioneered it) system.
>>  Bosch developed it for the aircraft engines (developed for the DB603 
>> engine which powered the Me109) - well, I am now rambling but suffice it 
>> to say on the whole I think all the added technology bodes ill for car 
>> longetivity. Just too much to go wrong and as the years pass fewer and 
>> fewer people know how to work on the "old technology". Not ALL of the 
>> technology is bad - my Bosch ABS pump is 24 years old and I think one of 
>> the reasons I have had no trouble with it (knock on wood) is that I have 
>> flushed the brake fluid every 2 years. Keeps the pump innards clean.
>>  BTW anyone know what is behind the stuck accelerator problem with 
>> Toyota?
>>  Bill
>>  ***
>> MR2 news from Top Gear
>> To: James <seawa.anon at gmail.com <mailto:seawa.anon at gmail.com>>
>> Cc: mr2 at mr2.com <mailto:mr2 at mr2.com>
>> Message-ID: <4B5CA4B5.90504 at comcast.net 
>> <mailto:4B5CA4B5.90504 at comcast.net>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>>
>> The more technology that I see being integrated into vehicles, the more
>> and more I resolve to never get rid of my 1986 Mr2.
>>
>> No power steering, no ABS, no airbags, no electric throttle, no active
>> yaw control, no electronic differentials, no OBDII, no stability or
>> traction control.  In other words: Perfect!
>>
>> And if my Mr2 were to be destroyed in an accident, I would just get
>> another and enjoy being a luddite.
>>
>> - Joel -
>