[MR2] MK1 Coolant Problem

[Donald Chalfant]

you paid that much for a multimeter?!!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Schultz" <bob-schultz at comcast.net>
To: "'Aaron Willis'" <te51levin at fastmail.fm>; "'Dennis McFayden'"
<mr2garage at yahoo.com>; "'MR2 Email'" <mr2 at mr2.com>; "'Ray Benoit'"
<spyderay at gmail.com>; "'Donald Chalfant'" <dkchal at datasync.com>; "'Baker
Richard'" <Richard.Baker at Richmondgov.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 27, 2009 12:21 AM
Subject: RE: [MR2] MK1 Coolant Problem


> This rant reminds me of the daily challenges of running a shop with what
was
> supposed to be experienced auto mechanics.
>
> At least once a week I would have a tech come in and ask for an obscure
> sensor or valve.  I would call the largest dealer in the area and ask if
> they ever sold one.
>
> When they told me that they never had I would go back to the tech and tell
> them to try again.  I don't think I was ever proven to be wrong and it
> always turned out to be something simple.
>
> I remember an 89 Grand Prix that came in at 4:30 on a Friday with no
> headlights.  The tech, who usually was pretty good started to pull apart
the
> steering column... at 4:30 on a Friday!!!!!!  He argued with me for a bit
> insisting it had to be a bad switch; there is no way all 4 headlights
(high
> and low beams) could have failed. When I grabbed my $9 Radio Shack multi
> meter and proved the bulbs were bad, well he was rather embarrassed
putting
> the column back together.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Aaron Willis [mailto:te51levin at fastmail.fm]
> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 2:47 PM
> To: Dennis McFayden; MR2 Email; Ray Benoit; Donald Chalfant; Baker
Richard;
> Bob Schultz
> Subject: Re: [MR2] MK1 Coolant Problem
>
> CAUTION: VERY DAMN DRY HUMOR AHEAD
>
> Dennis, the boys and I have gotten together and decided we are going to
> bill you for this.  We have thirty or forty man-hours worth of
> diagnosis, hypothesizing, extrapolation, interpolation, and general
> *theoretical* repair on this issue, and at the end of the (very long)
> day, the root problem is that the coolant was not bled properly; one of
> the (if not the absolute) most basic, most critical issues with these
> cars, one that absolutely must be correct before anything else can be
> tweaked or adjusted, had been overlooked.
>
> Obviously I'm not literally going to send you an invoice for lost time
> (I'll let my bookkeeper do that), but I think this serves as a solid
> reminder to everyone with an MR2, or any other old, oddball car.  As
> easy as it is to get others involved over the internet, it is still
> absolutely essential - mandatory - to CHECK THE BASICS before doing
> anything, or assuming anything, or asking anyone anything...
>
> If the car sputters or runs roughly, or not at all, make doubly sure
> there is gasoline in the tank (Prius owners would do well to heed this
> one as well).  Before blaming the fuel pump, as people often do, try
> bypassing the circuit opening relay.
>
> If you have any sort of electrical issue, check the battery, terminals,
> cables, and grounds THOROUGHLY before doing anything else.
>
> If you have an issue with the cooling system, confirm with 100%
> certainty that there are NO air bubbles in the system ANYWHERE.
>
> If the car runs funny, or poorly, double check all three items above
> before moving on to timing belt, valve lash, or ignition timing - and
> check them all, CORRECTLY.
>
> If you have a clunk or bump or moan in the suspension or chassis, get
> under the car and LOOK.  Move things, pry on things, wiggle things.
> Check anything that moves, or could move.  Get the wheels off.  Push,
> pull, tug or tap anything that is not welded to the body of the car.
> Touch things, for the love of God, FIND OUT what's loose before checking
> the internet to see what is making the noise.
>
> Next week's episode on self-reliance involves copper tubing and lots of
> corn.  Seats fill up fast, so try to get here early.
>
>
> On Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:31:15 -0700 (PDT), "Dennis McFayden"
> <mr2garage at yahoo.com> said:
> >
> > I have found the source of this problem. The first thing I did to prove
> > there was no leak during the cool down phase was to pressurize the
system
> > during cool down. The volume of coolant remained the same, no leaks.
With
> > this fact I decided that there was only one answer to the problem, an
air
> > bubble. In fact that is what I discovered after a complete bleeding of
> > the system.
> >
> > My maintenance records show that this problem has probably existed since
> > I last changed the coolant, a little less than one year ago. I also
> > discovered that some air can remain in the system trapped in the pipe
> > that goes between the plastic radiator cap fixture and the side of the
> > car. This pipe should slope in a downward fashion. Mine was had a hump.
> >
> > I was very surprised to see how much air had been in the system. One way
> > of checking this is to start with a full recovery tank. Use this fluid
to
> > keep filling the system as the air is removed. Mine went down about
half.
> >
> > Remember to check the level of the coolant at the radiator cap when the
> > system has cooled down. If the coolant is at the top then you have no
> > trapped air.
> >
> > Dennis
> > --- On Sat, 9/19/09, Aaron Willis <te51levin at fastmail.fm> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Aaron Willis <te51levin at fastmail.fm>
> > Subject: Re: [MR2] MK1 Coolant Problem
> > To: "Dennis McFayden" <mr2garage at yahoo.com>, "MR2 Email" <mr2 at mr2.com>
> > Date: Saturday, September 19, 2009, 10:00 PM
> >
> >
> > Have you ever replaced the overflow cap and its hoses? They tend to get
> > brittle and leak, if not come apart entirely.
> >
> > On Sat, 19 Sep 2009 20:54:10 -0700 (PDT), "Dennis McFayden"
> > <mr2garage at yahoo.com> said:
> > > I posted this problem before and got a couple of good ideas but not
> > > worked. The problem is that my cooling system does not suck back the
> > > coolant from the overflow tank.
> > >
> > > I have replaced the radiator cap three times with new OEM caps. N o
help
> > > there. The symptoms are:
> > >
> > > 1) I have pressurized the system to 16 PSI for over an hour and the
> > > pressure holds, no leaks. I pressurized the whole system even the
> > > drop-down tube going into the overflow tank.
> > >
> > > 2) I have not lost any coolant.
> > >
> > > 3) With my pressure tester attached in place of the radiator cap I can
> > > create a vacuum to draw the coolant back into the system.
> > >
> > > The only thing I can come up with now is a possible flaw in the seal
> > > between the cap and the place where it attaches. No flaw is visible.
My
> > > pressure tester attaches in the same way as the radiator cap.
> > >
> > > It may be possible(?) that air gets sucked into the cooling system
> > > instead of the coolant from the over-flow tank. That would be a rather
> > > complex one way leak that would not show up under pressure. I have
also
> > > created a vacuum in the system to see if it would hold. It did but I
> > > didn't create much of a vacuum.
> > >
> > > Any ideas would be appreciated. The car cooling system doesn't come
> close
> > > to over heating, works very well even the the AC on and our high CA
> > > temps.
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > > This is a '87 MR2
>
> -- 
> Aaron Willis - '85 AW11 7A-GE, MSnS-Extra, E85, etc
> Club discount on OEM Toyota parts - email me at work! awillis at lithia.com
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.113/2397 - Release Date:
09/26/09
> 17:51:00
>
>