V6 with S54 vs. E153??? (Transmission Poll)

[Mark_Dorman]

Note: The poll is for what people think is best to use not necessarily what you used or are using.

So I know this has been discussed a bit before but I'm looking for some solid impressions and opinions.

I am doing my 3VZ V6 swap in the next few months (I already have the motor but this can apply to the 1MZ and 5VZ as well). What I want to know is what Transmission I should go with. I have both an E153 and a S54 I could use. I know/have studied the gearing ratios, have driven both NA and Turbo MR2's. I would like to know how both behave on V6's.

S54
Upsides:
-Light weight
-Handles power pretty well
-No modifications to the axles and hubs for NA cars
-Gearing makes for faster acceleration
Downsides:
-Weaker Internals
-High Cruising RPM's
-Does not use as many bolts to mate to the block (I believe)
-Won't handle as much power

E153
Upsides:
-Strong internals
-Holds more power
-More "ideal" gear ratios for the V6
-Lower cruising RPM's
-Stronger Axles
-Can be found with LSD
Downsides:
-Heavy
-Slower Acceleration
-Requires upgraded axles and hubs for NA (or custom)

Feel free to point out other Positives or Negatives for either Transmission.

[Gairloch]

I've chosen to start with an S54 but I'm cheating. I'm putting the internals of an s51 (camry tranny) into the s54 housing so I have taller gearing.

[Jason.MZW20]

I don't find the S54's ratios suitable for the 3VZ/1MZ unless it's solely a track car, but even then, the low top speed will handicap you on a track with long straights.

The E153's axles will bust before the internals break, so you're looking at 500hp+ with that. The S series is known to handle up to 260-275rwhp (supercharged 1MZ), but the differential and pinion gears will fail on hard launches with large racing spec tires.

Personally, I used an S51 because it has a gearset which is more suited to the torque curve of the 3VZ/1MZ even though it was used in conjunction with the Camry/Solara 5SFE.

I know you've studied the ratios, but here they are again.

S51 3.538 1.960 1.250 0.945 0.731 Diff: 3.944 (Camry/Solara I4 M/T)
S54 3.285 1.960 1.322 1.028 0.820 Diff: 3.944 (Euro spec)
S54 3.285 1.960 1.322 1.028 0.820 Diff: 4.176 (US/JDM spec)
E53 3.583 2.045 1.333 1.028 0.820 Diff: 3.625 (92-93 3VZ)
E153 3.230 1.913 1.258 0.918 0.731 Diff: 3.933 (97-01 Camry V6)
E153 3.230 1.913 1.258 0.918 0.731 Diff: 4.285 (91-95 MR2T)

The V6 E153 has the longest gearing of these transmission, while the 4.176 S54 has the shortest. The S51 is in between the MR2T E153 and the V6 E153 in terms of gearing, which is why I chose it over the S54.

In order of gearing, longest to shortest (by 4th and 5th drive ratios listed respectively):

E153 3.230 1.913 1.258 0.918 0.731 Diff: 3.933 (3.610, 2.875)
S51 3.538 1.960 1.250 0.945 0.731 Diff: 3.944 (3.727, 2.883)
E53 3.583 2.045 1.333 1.028 0.820 Diff: 3.625 (3.727, 2.972)
E153 3.230 1.913 1.258 0.918 0.731 Diff: 4.285 (3.933, 3.132)
S54 3.285 1.960 1.322 1.028 0.820 Diff: 3.944 (4.054, 3.234)
S54 3.285 1.960 1.322 1.028 0.820 Diff: 4.176 (4.293, 3.424)

AFAIK, Jim King and I are the ones using the S51 coupled with the 1MZ. The ratios seem well suited during my short drive, but 1st gear is really short and almost useless. It'll definitely be of no use with a supercharged 1MZ. Acceleration in 2nd and 3rd gears is good. 4th and 5th are pretty long cruising gears and keep the engine revs low, so that's a plus. I have a 2001 S51, so I have the double synchros on 2nd and 5th, and shift feel is positively good, but mine is rebuilt.

In the long term, the E153's better synchros will provide better engagement and wear coupled with the V6's torque.

[U-235]

I like the idea of using the S51 in leiu of an E153, but personally I'd only use it for NA applications of the V6.

Sure, having low ratios would make it a bit peppier but I will say that rowing through the gears that quick gets really old really fast. Unless being a shift savage is your thing.

[Gairloch]

The reason I refuse to use an S54 is because I will *not* drive a v6 turning 4k rpm at 70mph on road trips.

[Mark_Dorman]

^Amen

[Jcamry94]

All of the camry v6 guys w/ sc's have used the e153 and have yieled great results.

I personally think the gearing on the s54 is just terrible for a v6, but what G said would be a good idea.

I don't think you'll want to outrun the tranny at a limited 120ish mph, and furthermore I trust you'll be tuning and modding the v6 so if there isn't enough grunt on the end for the gearing you can create some

[Mark_Dorman]

Yeah...I've always been leaning more towards the E153 for the swap. Just like the gear ratios better. Just wasn't thrilled about having to buy turbo axles and hubs at the moment but that shouldn't be too expensive. Might get hooked up if I'm lucky

I figure this would help people out in the future as well...that's why I made it a poll and asked for explanations. Thanks guys so far...great responses

[U-235]

Maybe you should consider a compromise at the moment, to help mitigate the risk of becoming Chairman of the Engine Stand Club (TM).


If you're just planning on getting the engine in there for the time being, why not go S54 and work out whatever kinks you can now. Then you can start collecting the parts to do an E153 conversion at your leisure instead of being pressured into potentially "not so good deals" just to get the project done.

If I remember correctly you'd need one of the E153 mounts, the turbo clutch/pressure plate, the axles and the hubs- not to mention the E153 to go with it all. Depending on your power needs, the CRW or ATS CV cages are a must.

I got most of my hardware from a salvaged '93 Turbo I found on Craigslist. but if you're looking at just picking it piece by piece, I've been finding a few low-miles axle sets on ebay for ~350USD shipped US48, and Rancho Cordova TAP had some Turbo hubs with new bearings for about ~150USD + shipping last I checked with them.

Just food for thought.

[Mark_Dorman]

I currently have an E153 (Thanks Ji), shifter linkage, new clutch, and pressure plate. I still need a flywheel, throwout bearing, axles+hubs (which I may have found a hook up on), and mounts. I think it might be better to just go with the E153 for me personally since I have most of the stuff and it would just add extra cost to make the S54 work.

[DrWonderEyes]

camry guts in a S54 is the way to go. that way it runs at a lower RPM.
and its rather simple to do anyway. if u like tearing apart transmissions lol

[Mark_Dorman]

I should have put that as an option. I was going to do that for a 1mz swap but ended up going 3vz and came across a E153 for free so this was the better route for me.

But I agree...the S54 housing with S51 internals gives you great gear ratios (similar to the E153) without the added weight. Maybe I'll add one to built 3vz (NA still).

[JimKing]

Notes:
> Josh @ ChicoRaceWorks makes (or used to make) hybrid "swap" axles that fit the E153 and na hubs.
> The S54/51 shares differential with the C series tranny, so the OEM helical LSD that was available on the Spyder (2004+) drops right into an S54/51 tranny. I have one in there now.

[AndyA]

I am using an s54 because it was available and i didn't want the added expense of turbo axles and hubs at this time. I am putting a S/C on it this coming winter and i will go for the e153 then but for now i am trying to keep expenses down.

[V6'er]

Find me somebody else who has put 50k miles on their V6 swap besides myself, so I think I might have a valid opinion. (OK, I lied, it's only 49K.)

This is my DD, and there is absolutely no way I'd drive it every day with an S54 tranny. My 1st gear is already so low, it's quite a rev to get moving. And I surely don't even need 3500 RPM (or so) at 70 MPH, just to have enough horsepower.

I need a 6-speed with an overdrive.

[mr2greasemonkey]

S54/S51 Hybrid.....

[Jason.MZW20]

I forgot to list the E53 from the 92-93 3VZ.

E53 3.583 2.045 1.333 1.028 0.820 Diff: 3.625

In the order, it would go under the S51. I'll edit my post to reflect that. The E53 uses triple cone synchros on 2nd gear and double cones on 3rd, so it received the same synchros as the updated E153.

[Gouky]

I forgot to list the E53 from the 92-93 3VZ.

E53 3.583 2.045 1.333 1.028 0.820 Diff: 3.625

In the order, it would go under the S51. I'll edit my post to reflect that. The E53 uses triple cone synchros on 2nd gear and double cones on 3rd, so it received the same synchros as the updated E153.

i'm using that rear end ratio in an E153 with my 2GRFE swap. i haven't driven it yet becuase the car is not done being painted. but i expect it to be much better than the stock E153 ratio.

[sinESter]

ive got the s54. its alright. gets the job done for sure. 1st gear is almost useless, but it works ok when you have to navigate speed bumps or other precarious road surfaces. i think the spyder lsd with the s51 internals would be awesome.

[JDM Factory]

S54/s51

hybrid I have used both type tranny and I prefer this route better. It feels much better with the s51 gearing than the e153.