mr2-digest Monday, January 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 100 [none] MR2 tach adaptor MR2 Re: Windshield Replacements - Cost? Re: MR2 MKI BGB Price MR2 MKII Turbo possible solution for glowing turbo Re: MR2 Re: mr2 prices MR2 DMV resources? Re: MR2 Re: MK1 AW11 SC Alternator MR2 94T for Sale in NJ RE: MR2 knock sensor LED MR2 RE: BGB Prices Re: MR2 - MKI Emmisions Testing & HKS Exhaust/TRD Headers & Flats! MR2 Tach install help Re: MR2 knock sensor LED Re: MR2 MKI BGB Wanted MR2 sponsors (how to get em) Re: MR2 91/92 Repair Manual Vol. 1/2 (final) MR2 MkII wheel nuts & ashtray MR2 MkII factory alarm problems ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:17:52 -0500 (EST) From: orduna_javier@jpmorgan.com Subject: [none] >From orduna_javier@jpmorgan.com Mon Jan 12 14:41:00 1998 Received: from nyc_ntgw_n03.ny.jpmorgan.com (nyc_ntgw_n03.ny.jpmorgan.com [198.75.84.104]) by mrszip.ny.jpmorgan.com (8.8.8/8.7.6) with SMTP id OAA01771 for ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:41:00 -0500 (EST) Received: by nyc_ntgw_n03.ny.jpmorgan.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v1.06 (346.4 3-18-1997)) id 8525658A.0068EB15 ; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:05:59 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: JPMORGAN@SMTP From: "Javier Orduna" To: mr2-interest@validgh.com ("'mr2-interest'") Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:02:50 +0200 Subject: BGB part number I wonder if any of you have the part number of the BGB for a MR2 MKI NA 1988. Thanks in advance. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:11:00 -0800 From: "Sabrina and Alex Pun" Subject: MR2 tach adaptor What's a tach adaptor? Thanks, Alex ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:38:46 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: MR2 Re: Windshield Replacements - Cost? For those of you who have had windshields replaced, how much did it cost? Now that my '91T has new paint and mostly restored interior, the car looks new except for the windshield. It only has 17K miles on it, but I guess the road racing was pretty rough on the windshield and it has a lot of small pits and scratches. (I've heard that Pocono is a really dirty track, and the car was raced there a few times.) I had brand new windshield molding installed when I had the car painted. I probably should have had the windshield replaced then, but I was already over my budget. Brad Burns '91T, the really pretty white car '93NA, the yella wreck ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:18:56 -0800 From: Steve N Subject: Re: MR2 MKI BGB Price > I called them and they quoted me $80 (including shipping to Colorado) > for the '86 BGB. Wow! I got my 87 BGB for $45 and bought the electrical for $9 and I got 2 day shipping for something like $7. I am surprised! Steve N. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:48:56 -0600 From: redmr2@home.com Subject: MR2 MKII Turbo possible solution for glowing turbo Over the past several months, I have had some rather strange coolant problems and the "glowing turbo" syndrome. After spirited runs, I could smell antifreeze and found laster that it was boiling out of the system into the overflow jug which would overflow and spill onto the exhaust tips. Well, 2 weeks ago I changed my fuel filter. It had to be the original from 107,000 miles ago. When I turned it upside down to drain it, it spilled out brown/black liquid. I have noticed since the replacement that my top end power seems smoother, glowing turbo has mainly been limited to very hard runs, and no more coolant smell. I believe that my filter was so clogged that I was loosing fuel pressure and running lean during WOT. So, if you have the "glowing turbo" syndrome, try changing the fuel filter and see if it is fixed. I would be interested to know if this helps anyone else or if it was coincidence. David G. Red '91T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 98 22:27:21 PST From: "David Youl" Subject: Re: MR2 Re: mr2 prices No, the Bathurst is not available in a turbo - not in Australia anyway. The only turbo MR2 you will ever buy in Australia will be a private import car. Toyota Australia has never imported and complianced any Turbo MR2s. The MR2 was spectacularly successful in a 12 hour production car race at Bathurst- not the 1000 km race held in October of each year. Such was the reliability and pace of the cars that they were consistently top 10 finishers (against the likes of Porsche 968 and Mazda RX7) and one year - I *think* it was 94 finished 4th and 5th outright - behind 1 RX7 and 2 968s. The twelve hour race is no loger held at Bathurst unfortunately. This year there was a 3 hour production car race held as a support to the Bathurst 1000 race for V8s. The MR2s entered finished in the top ten (again) and won their class which included some very fast Subaru WRXs. 129kw is approx 173 bhp. Dave Youl BTW - the GT model MR2 here in Oz will set you back about $65000 Aud. The Bathurst is really a bare bones model - plenty of extras - not much standard eg Radio! - ---------- > Yes..The 1997 MR2 Bathurst does come in Turbo. I stayed away from a > turbo after blowing the Turbo on my '83 Mitsubishi Starion . ( which I > must say was a great car to drive.) > > Im pretty sure the Bathurst model is only available in Australia. It is > named after a race track in the city of Bathurst in New South Wales > where a 1000 lap endurance race takes place every year. Mr2 won the > 2ltr. class 2 years running, maybe 3 im not too sure about that.. > > Im not sure how fast it is in hp but i do know it has 129kilowatts of > power. > > The specs of this model can be found at: > > http://www.toyota.com.au/specs/mr2_bathurstfeat.html > > > > > David Hawkins wrote: > > > You know....$35000US isn't so bad for a new > > MR2. My 93 stickered at $29000US and I know > > that a 94 equipped the same way stickered at > > $34000.......is the Bathurst a turbo? If so, that > > means that you are getting 45 more HP for the > > same price as our cars were three years ago! > > > > Just food for thought :) > > > > Please register your car...it'll be the newest one on > > the list. http://www.twosrus.com/registry.htm > > > > David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com > > 93T FIPK/RMS S.P/RMS MBC > > 89SC Cupholder > > 66 Corvair > > 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:35:58 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: MR2 DMV resources? I've started making calls to DMV agencies for registration info, but I'll try this one more time - if anyone has *any* info pertaining to aquiring DMV information (trade journals, web sites, etc) and the legal use of it (list-rental agreements, fair-use, info-liability, etc), please let me know. Before I start re-inventing the wheel, the more info the better. Thanks! Also, would the owners of the SC registry and Mk II registry please e-mail me directly. Thanks. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:58:16 -0600 From: "Steve Hoult" Subject: Re: MR2 Re: MK1 AW11 SC Alternator > Does anyone know if a higher output alternator (amps) from a other toyota >will work w/ the 4A-GZE. My alternator went sour this weekend...At first i >thought it was the battery, but when I disconnected the battery, the engine >died. So it's the alternator, right? Could it be anything else? > >Happy Motoring > >Franklin Chan > >88 SC I don't have the Toyota CD-Rom so I can't look it up for you, but I do have a word of advice. DON'T go cheap on repairing your alternator. DON'T buy an AutoZone/PepBoys/etc rebuilt alternator unless you are planning to get rid of the car pretty soon. These units don't last very long. Get the REAL thing from Toyota. It costs a bunch more but you'll only have to do it once! Steve Hoult '89 SC Remember to visit the MR2 SC Registry at; http://mr2sc.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:14:12 -0500 From: "Kennedy, Paul M, NCIO" Subject: MR2 94T for Sale in NJ Saw the following MR2 for sale: '94 MR2 Turbo Mileage: 51,542 mi. Color: Dark Green (probably Aquamarine Pearl) All options including Leather seats Dealer: Acura of Ramsey 201-934-8200 Price: $14,750 I called and confirmed this. At first, Dave, the person I spoke to, said it was $16+K. When I told them they had an ad in the Want Ad press at $14+K, he agreed to the lower price, saying no one had told them they had put out an ad. He said it was in excellent condition, the only defects being a scratch on the body side molding and a scuff mark on the bottom of the front spoiler. They are located in Northern NJ near the NY border. Jeff Fazio, this one may meet your requirements (except for color?). Directions from where you are would be: 78E, 287N to Rt17S in Mahwah, approx. 4 mi on the right hand side. If it works out, I'll be looking for my $100 reward. :) I even gave some thought to going over and if it was nice, buying it and selling my 91T. Actually, though, as far as looks are concerned, I prefer the way the '91-'93 spoiler integrates into the body compared to the '94-'95 spoiler which looks more 'attached' to the body and gives clearer definition to the rear end (which without a spoiler does not look all that nice). Paul Kennedy 91T 86NA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:09 MST From: marcus@illusion.magicno.com Subject: RE: MR2 knock sensor LED Alex wrote: > Does the knock sensor operate exactly like > on http://alabanza.com/tsnet/ledmod/howto.htm? Chris Conlon replied: .The mod on this page (for a turbo Talon, or somesuch) doesn't actually hook .the led to the knock sensor, but to a wastegate-related solenoid that the .ECU uses to limit boost, which I guess it normally only does when knocking .is detected. Thus the ECU does the tricky work of interpreting the signal .for you, the led just monitors the ECU's response to knocking. I don't know, .but probably there is some similar VSV in the mkiit, something the ECU can .turn on or off to limit boost during knock. If there is, you'd probably be .able to monitor it easily, and get the result you want. Someone who knows .the mkiit turbo plumbing care to comment? There is a VSV that limits the boost under certain (protective) conditions. This is what Brad Burns has installed (a variation of) this circuit to monitor. A couple of years ago at Road America, I noticed that I was not getting full boost going down the straights. After re-fueling at a different gas station, I was back to full boost. My best guess was that the Unocal 76 station I filled up at that morning was actually below the octane rating (it was one of those single-hose for multiple grade pumps) and that the ECU was limiting boost to combat knocking. It seems a reasonable thing to do, but I have no idea if it really works this way. Perhaps Brad would be willing to run his '91T down to near empty, then put a gallon of 85 octane gas in and see if the ECU inhibits full boost. (Then fill up with 93 octane again to run normally.) "Harry C. Wang" also adds: }What about something timing related? Doesn't the ECU retard timing upon }signals from the knock sensor? What about hooking up the LED to this }function? I'm not sure how the ECU does it. A combination of electrical }and mechanical outputs? The ECU controls timing by monitoring a pickup in the distributor (to establish base timing) and generating a signal to the coil to fire. The time between the base signal coming in and the signal generated varies depending on RPM and timing advance. Thus, it's rather difficult to tell if timing is being retarded for knock. It must also be noted that monitoring the knock sensor (or installing an auxilary knock sensor) may not be too useful either. If knock is detected, the ECU works pretty quickly to reduce/eliminate it. So, at most you should see just a very short bit of knocking, then after the ECU adjusts, the knocking (hopefully) goes away. I imagine that the ECU probably tries after a while (probably a couple of minutes) to take the timing back to normal and see if the knock has gone away. If so, then things are fine, but if the knock comes back after a couple of tries, it then probably just holds the timing retarded until the engine is turned off. So, what you really need is a way to monitor the internal state in the ECU and detect the "engine knock detected" bit. Perhaps some system that can talk to the ECU over the serial link could extract this... marcus hall '94 MR2T '85 MR2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:21:00 -0800 From: Todd Clark Subject: MR2 RE: BGB Prices Ok, I called Toyota Publications and got the following information from them. The 1988 BGB Chasis, Body, and Engine book goes for $84.19 part number RM070 The Electrical book goes for $11.38 and is part number WD035 Shipping to Washington State is $6.00 for 2-3 week delivery, or $12.00 for 2-3 day delivery. They even charge local sales tax. So, I'll ask again, does anybody have and old 1988 BGB they want to sell? (Please) :) Thanks, Todd Clark 88 MR2 SC (NOVELL) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:39:32 -0600 From: "Steve Hoult" Subject: Re: MR2 - MKI Emmisions Testing & HKS Exhaust/TRD Headers & Flats! Dave Aucott wrote: >> It is the header that is bad, not your engine. >> >>http://members.aol.com/daucott/Header.html Jason Dove Replied: >=) I would have, but I don't have web access. Um, I didn't have much >choice, the manifold, header (with the slink) pipe and the pipe after that >one cost more than the TRD header did (I needed all 3). Why not just try >cranking it down more with the bolts, or will it strip the head? Could I >also try to crank it down with the engine hot? Anyway, it's not leaking >much, and only when it's not idling, but just enough to bug me. You definitely NEED a header gasket! The one TRD used to supply with their header was known to have problems which is probably why you didn't get one. DO NOT CRANK DOWN ON THE BOLTS! You will strip the head and then you'll REALLY have a leak! If you have the right gasket (Toyota) and the right studs and washers and have cleaned the gasket surfaces properly then the proper torque will make things quiet. REALLY DO NOT CRANK DOWN WITH A HOT HEAD!!!!!!! Steve Hoult '89 SC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:36:25 -0800 From: svogeding@earthlink.net (Jefferson) Subject: MR2 Tach install help I have an Omori 60mm tachometer w/warning that I bought a few years back for another car. Its a real slick unit. It looks similar to the greddy stuff (no surprise they make Greddy's gauges). Anyhow I want to hook this sucker up, but I'm not sure How. The only wire I can't figure is the one to the "negative ignition terminal" I don't have a BGB or a ton of ignition system knowledge, So I'm preying you guys can help me on where this thing is. Also, I've heard tach adapters mentioned on and off in regards to ignition amplifiers, so does that mean I need one of those? Thanks in advance -Jefferson V. 91T J e f f V o g e d i n g http://home.earthlink.net/~svogeding ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:31:17 -0800 From: Mike Chou Subject: Re: MR2 knock sensor LED > "Harry C. Wang" also adds: > > }What about something timing related? Doesn't the ECU retard timing upon > }signals from the knock sensor? What about hooking up the LED to this > }function? I'm not sure how the ECU does it. A combination of electrical > }and mechanical outputs? > > The ECU controls timing by monitoring a pickup in the distributor (to > establish base timing) and generating a signal to the coil to fire. > The time between the base signal coming in and the signal generated > varies depending on RPM and timing advance. Thus, it's rather > difficult to tell if timing is being retarded for knock. I noticed on the HomeDyno page one of the reviews given by a user was talking about an oversensitive knock sensor in the camaro I think and how they did something to reduce the output so it wouldn't cause the ecu to retard timing and cause a "stumble" in the horsepower graph.. Are all knock sensors a little sensitive perhaps? I'm wondering cuz I think i will be coming into posession of a turbo motor soon.. *hope* Oh yeah and if anyone has ideas on how I could *cheaply* or as cheap as possible get a wreck from NY to California, PLEASE let me know! Mike C ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 18:59:06 -0600 From: "Steve Hoult" Subject: Re: MR2 MKI BGB Wanted >>Call Toyota Publications at (800) 622-2033. I got the BGB for my 89 for $45 >>and a new owners manual for $9.95. Shipping (next day air) was $12. >Thanks for the tip Steve! Will Toyota Publications have the part number for >the BGB, or does anybody on the list know the part number? > >Todd Clark >88 MR2 SC (NOVELL) They were really knowledgeable when I called them last year. They knew which BGB I wanted and also suggested the electrical manual (which I didn't get, but should've). Steve Hoult '89 SC ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:52:26 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: MR2 sponsors (how to get em) im looking into sponsors to help defray my racing costs. is there a traditional method or manner in which to do this? are there any publications/literature on this subject ("the business of autoracing") type thingy? thanx terry paying $1.65 a gal. for this weather - terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:52:26 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: Re: MR2 91/92 Repair Manual Vol. 1/2 (final) both in two volumes (books) 91' 00400-RM179U1-$26.45 00400-RM179U2-$39.66 92' 00400-RM252-$29.28 00400-RM252U2-$41.82 thanx terry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 15:30:35 -0800 From: Jim King Subject: MR2 MkII wheel nuts & ashtray 1) Anybody have an extra set of OEM wheel nuts ('93+, if it matters)? The previous owner of my 2 put nice 17" BBS wheels on it. He kept the OEM alloys and I got those in the deal but he lost the nuts. There's a slalom in two wheels and I'd rather run "Stock Tire" class but I'll have to put the OEM wheels back on to do it! 2) Some delinquent/bum/whatever stole the ashtray out of my car on New Years Eve. *Just* the ashtray, along with all $2.17 in change that was in it. Parked in my driveway on a quiet street the one night I forgot to lock it... Does anybody have one of these laying around from a parts car? Would 20 bucks make it worth your time to send it to me? I just need somewhere to put my change again. Jim '93 Turquoise Turbo. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:47:49 -0800 From: Jim King Subject: MR2 MkII factory alarm problems For the person with the factory alarm going off after an aftermarket alarm was installed: I don't think the factory alarm can be disabled simply by pulling a fuse. You would probably have to find the "Theft Deterent ECU" and remove that. I don't know if this would affect any other systems in the car. Your typical Stereo / Alarm installation place probably wouldn't mess with it. The factory alarm arms automatically when doors are closed and locked, bonnet, engine cover and trunk are closed. (You can use the button to lock the doors while one is open, or use the key to lock them after closing them) To disarm it you MUST unlock either door or trunk *with the key* For an aftermarket alarm to automatically lock/unlock your doors, it can be tied in to simulate pressing of the lock/unlock button OR hooked up to simulate the turning of the key in the door lock cylinder. There is a separate switch as part of the door lock cylinder. To operate properly, an aftermarket alarm's door lock / unlock output wires should be hooked up to the door lock cylinder, NOT the lock/unlock button wires. FWIW. Want more details, drop me a line. Jim '93 Turquoise Turbo. ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #100