mr2-digest Monday, January 12 1998 Volume 02 : Number 098 MR2 the BGB Re: MR2 Non-USA parts Re: MR2 Mk I: door hinges Re: MR2 Re: Re: MR2 MkI Problem, Help! MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #95 MR2 Replacing my windshield, finally ! Re: MR2 Home Dyno Re: MR2 Re: mr2 MK2 problems (worn key) Re: MR2 MKI Idle cutting out Re: MR2 Home Dyno ? Re: MR2 the BGB MR2 Humor Re: MR2 - MKI Emmisions Testing & HKS Exhaust/TRD Headers & Flats! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:49:53 GMT From: Sam Kingsbury Subject: MR2 the BGB Various people are mentioning various revisions of the BGB... The 'catalogs faq' on mr2.com only lists one edition (2vols) for the Mk1 MR2 - for *1989* (I quote): >"1989 Toyota MR2 Repair Manual - Volume 1" >(Chassis and Body) >Author: Toyota Motor Corporation Sources: Toyota Dealers >Pages : lots Illustr: lots >Publication Number 36256E >--- >"1989 Toyota MR2 Repair Manual - Volume 2" >(Engine) >Author: Toyota Motor Corporation Sources: Toyota Dealers >Pages : lots Illustr: lots >Publication Number 36230E yet Todd Clark refers to an '88 version: >The Toyota dealer here wants $85.00 for the 1988 MR2 BGB. Does anybody on >the list have an 88 BGB they want to sell? and Steve N suggests there may be others: >I think the 88 manual is $55 and all of the other MKI manuals are $45 ^^^ ^ So... my question.... exactly how many versions of these books are there? Which is the ideal one for my me? (I wan't copies too!) I have a UK 1988 Mk1 NA Tbar. If you know where I can get copies PLEASE let me know! If I phone that USA no. will they send to the UK? >Toyota publications: >1-800-622-2033 Cheers, Sam Kingsbury ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:33:49 -0800 From: Karen or Jeffrey Subject: Re: MR2 Non-USA parts At 07:38 PM 1/11/98, mattm wrote: >were definitely cheaper in the US. They must be ordered >"off-line" from the dealership's PDC (Parts Distribution >Center). Yeah, I believe Jeff Barton @ Cabe Toyota can do this. Although he has a hard time locating part numbers for Japan only parts. He was looking for a turbocharger 4Runner hood, but for kicks I told him to go find out the OEM GTR spoiler part number and cost for MR2s. - - Jeffrey ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:18:24 EST From: Ltraviolnc Subject: Re: MR2 Mk I: door hinges In a message dated 98-01-11 14:34:32 EST, bagdon@rust.net writes: > Anyone else notice if the hinges wear differently, and if so does the top > hinge always wear faster? Also, if anyone needs a new passenger side bottom > hinge, I'll give it away to a needy home (er, car). > > Steve B. > The top hinge does seem to be the one that wears. If you pull up on my drivers door when open, you can see alot of movement in the upper hinge, but none on the bottom. Noticeable play started around 50k, and has gotten worse ever since. It's at the point now (at 100k), that the door closes hard from the sagging and sometimes needs to be slammed to latch completely. It acts alot like my old Firebird used to, which I find odd because the doors are relatively light. I guess I'll fix it one of these years. Ron 87/\/\R2 Ltraviolnc@aol.com ICQ: 3087083 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:38:17 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 Re: S and K Bagdon wrote: > > >Ken Nitta wrote: > >> > >> unsubscribe mr2 KenRon@webtv.net > > > >I can't imagine why anyone would ever want to leave....8) > >but if you do, remember the command must go to: > >Majordomo@slapshot.hockey.net > > Isn't it mr2-request, mr2-digest-request and mr2-announce-request @mr2.com > (or @slapshot.hocket.net)? I think (unless it's been changed) that you can send it to any one of those, including Majordomo. This is from the listserv: Someone (possibly you) has requested that your email address be added to or deleted from the mailing list "mr2@slapshot.hockey.net". If you really want this action to be taken, please send the following commands (exactly as shown) back to "Majordomo@slapshot.hockey.net" If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, you can send mail to with the following command in the body of your email message: So, I think either way works. Someone let me know if I am wrong. 8) By the way, Ken is not leaving, he is changing his address. Duh. Of course, I should have thought of it. No one leaves "the list", even if they sell their MR2..right? 8-) *you can check out any time you like...but you can never leave* Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:26:18 -0500 From: "David Aucott" Subject: Re: MR2 MkI Problem, Help! >My car has 121K miles on the clock. Today I tried to start the engine but >it failed to start. There wasn't any cranking sound from the engine at >all. The dashboard lights were sort of blinking or shall I say fading and In addition to the starter, check the ground wire that bolts to the transmission. It's right under the intake tube and bolts to one of the thermostat housing attachments. If it gets corroded you can have grounding problems. - -- Dave A. daucott@ford.com http://members.aol.com/daucott '86 MR2, '93T MR2, '87 Civic Si, '95 Probe GT ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:54:47 EST From: AkTiF8 Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #95 First of all, Chris, that's seriously cool of you, and a great idea. Second..If you need any web design, graphics or such done, let me know (also, anyone planning to put up a web page @ mr2.org that doesn't have html experience, i'll be glad to help out.) I need something to sink my teeth into, and I think AKTiF8 Digital Media can do some pro bono work for the MR2 community =) (my web pages are all under reconstruction, but they'll be back up soon) ke!th - ----------- 91 NA, 15's, 205/50, 225/50, Pilot Fogs (read: stock.) - --[.http://members.aol.com/aktif8/home.html --[.data. -[personal.]-- - --[.http://members.aol.com/aktif8/ --[.data. -[AKTiF8 Digital Media.]-- In a message dated 1/12/98 12:35:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner- mr2-digest@mr2.com writes: << Well, I didn't get as much done to the faq as I wanted so I will hold off on releasing it until next weekend. Thanks to the installation of Internet Explorer 4, I not only had to spend all weekend working on my computer, but I also lost the email addresses of everyone I know. THis includes all midwest mr2 owners, etc, etc, etc... Therefore, at a later date, I will have to get the addresses of midwest owners interested in getting together. READ BELOW PLEASE!!!!!!! Now for the really important stuff!!! If anyone has been reading my prior posts, I have registered the domain mr2.org. I will have a web page up shortly (nothing is there now so don't bother checking it out yet). Now, here is my proposition to everyone. I have a pretty good chunk of space available. I am offereing space for everyone to put up their own personal mr2 page. Here is how it will work. You can create it on your machine and then email it to me. What I will do is create a folder for you and put all your stuff there. So for example, let's say you want a page. You create it, email it to me, and I will put it in a folder. For example, my web page would be www.mr2.org/cking/ or something similiar assuming I didn't own the thing. Benefits to doing this: 1) Everyone has the opportunity to put up a page for themself for free! I am asking for no money in return. This is a gift I am providing for you guys. I am eating the bill myself. 2) This provides a common place for mr2 pages. Say I know nothing about the mr2. If i come here I can see what a bunch of different people think about the car etc. In addition, it makes a common location for all of us to have stuff. No more bookmarking 20 people's individual pages. You can bookmark mr2.org and it will take you to all 20 people's pages. This should also increase traffic to everyone's page. 3) There will be no "forced advertisements" to have on your pages. THis is a private domain so you don't have to worry about putting up ads for geocities, etc... Obviously there are others but I will leave it at that. My hope is that people using free services such as geocities, etc will move their pages over. I would also like to see other people who don't currently have pages, to set something up for themselves. I think this is a great way to strengthen the internet mr2 community. So there you have it. That is my belated Christmas present to all. If anyone has questions, and so forth, email me and we will discuss them privately. I believe I can also set up email accounts for you with the extension xxx@mr2.org but this will cost $5 a month. THis isn't money I would pocket, it would go to my ISP. A couple have already inquired about this. So there you go. I am expecting some emails and hopefully interest so fire away people! Chris K. 91 NA >> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:30:30 -0800 From: psmith@mofo.com (Smith, Patrick E.) Subject: MR2 Replacing my windshield, finally ! HI I'm finally going to replace my front windshield and when i called to get the molding the guy asked me if i wanted the molding and the dampening kit as well. Both of these together cost about $70. Am i going to need both kits to replace my window? What do they cut when they take it out? another Toyota dealer said i only needed the molding. What the F***? Patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:37:11 -0800 (PST) From: myt@cypress.com (Micky Thutiyakul / Product Engineer) Subject: Re: MR2 Home Dyno I didn't look at the website long...just what it does, and the price ($80 is not worth it IMHO). Of course it'll work. Whether it's accurate is another question. Here's my analysis of this thing (I'm sure people will tell me if I'm wrong): 1. This "Home Dyno" requires an inductor hooked up to the engine to count RPMs, and needs of course gearing info. Basically all this is just a fancy speedometer. If you get the gearing, circumference of the tire, etc. etc. correct it'll probably better than the stock speedo. 2. After digitizing the recording (how much will be lost in the resolution?) into a .wav file, the program will use it to calculate the acceleration of the car. 3. From this, if you get the weight of your car correct (assumming remaining gas, whether you ate lunch. etc.), and the test area is 100% flat, it will calculate your power and torque. To me this is nothing more than a G-tech with A LOT more variables. Which is not bad, IF the variables are accurate (but the statistical uncertainty still goes up, which is bad). Where this setup measures acceleration by hooking up the inductor, gearing values etc., to get a good speed reading to calculate acceleration, the G-Tech does it much more simply...it uses an accelerometer...with a one hundreths resolution accuracy. Which method you think is more accurate is of course your own opinion. After that, everything else is the same. The only thing is, and according to the website, is that you should "adjust" the parameters until the HP/Torque readings is up to what you think the HP should be...Not bad unless you really want to know what the car is putting out at the rear wheels. The graphs look nice, but notice how the sample vehicle is a Z28. An accuracy of plus or minus 5 hp on a +275 HP car is nothing. But on low HP cars like the MR2, there's no way this setup is going to tell you if the new intake is helping make any more HP. You can barely tell that from a real dyno. Anything you get out of it will be wishful thinking IMHO. At least with the G-tech you can measure cornering G's. Which should be fairly accurate (it's just an accelerometer after all), and is more useful for what the MR2 was designed for. Micky '89 SC MR2 > Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 21:31:59 -0500 > From: Phil Cutajar > Subject: MR2 Home Dyno > > > This looks rather interesting. I just read through the material at the > web site and it sounds like it could possibly work. Has anyone tried it? > > Funny thing is... since this is basically just a computer program, > anyone could copy it and give it away. The guy should have some kind of > proctection scheme to prevent this. > > I'd be interested in feedback from anyone who knows more about this > product. > > - -- > Phil Cutajar ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:34:23 EST From: Conti64542 Subject: Re: MR2 Re: mr2 MK2 problems (worn key) In a message dated 98-01-11 07:00:17 EST, bagdon@rust.net writes: > >the least expensive solution is to go to your Toyota dealer and have the code > >read from your existing key. Since Toyota uses fixed depths (I think there > >are 4) for the keys, it should be easy to read them from the less worn side. > > >Many dealers will be able to "punch" a new key for you. If your dealer can' > t > >do it, then take the key to a locksmith. They can look it up in their > books, > >too, but it will cost more. Then make *many* copies of this pritine key > and > >save for a rainy day! > > I wouldn't recommend this (but everyone is allowed to do whatever they > want). *Any* imperfections on the key will be tranposed from the old key. > Better to start 'from scratch'. I'd make a key from the code on the > passenger door lock cylinder, having Toyota make one from the hand-held > 'punch-tool' key maker. Then make dupes from that from a key cutting > machine. Technically, you are correct. But, in my limited experience (I know of only a half dozen people who have done this), it works fine. And it *is* the least expensive route in terms of both time and $$. You see, if the key works, it will be, almost by definition, perfect and pristine. This is because it was punched using the Toyota-specific depths and spacing. If something was not correct, it would not work because the punched depth would be completely wrong. If the parts person can't read the depths well enough, I'd go to a locksmith who has more experience doing this. Only if this failed would I go the route (with the added inconvenience and cost) of removing the trim from the door. (Of course, it was 0F in Chicago Sat night, so I am not excited about *any* kind of fiddling with cars right now!) I'd also add that I would store this punched key as a master. I'd use the dulpicates as my everyday keys (and spares). - -Renni ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 10:46:38 -0800 From: Jason Dove Subject: Re: MR2 MKI Idle cutting out At 03:20 PM 1/11/98 EST, Sport Ridr wrote: >I recently drained, flushed, and bled the coolant system. I made sure to get >all the air out, it took a long time. Well even before i did the flush, at >idle, the motor would "cut out" every few seconds sometimes even stalling, all >most as if it the coil or coil wire had a loose connection. I checked the >contacts and all seems well. It occurs when the motor is warm and only at >idle, which i turned up to 1000rpm's so it wouldnt stall so much. As soon as i >rev the motor a bit, it is clear, but as soon as it falls back to idle, it >will start "cutting out" again. A couple weeks ago i put on new rotor, cap, >wires, and plugs(platinums). Its not really like a "miss", i know what that is >and this is not missing. I really hope its not the igniter, but i am dreading >that it is, because i have heard its not cheap. Its really a pain in traffic, >sometimes it stalls if the light is too long, maybe my MR2 just really wants >to be driven! :-) I've got a similar problem. I believe it could be the regulator in the alternator. The way to test it (which I have to do still) is to take the car for a good run +30 mins, and measure the volatage across the terminals, and record the tempature outside. Then, there is this chart that will tell you what it should be. I'm going to do this soon and I'll let you know my results. My problem is that I go down the street at say 3000, 3rd gear, and when I come to a stop, my idle drops to low, but then it comes back up (since I turned up the idle, before it would stall). It drops lower if I have the brakes on (powering the brake lights), the headlights on, the wipers running, or the Heater on. If all of them are on, then it's worse :). Jason Dove, Vancouver BC, Canada '87 Toyota MR2 NA K&N Air Filter Crane Cam Ignition Coil Chrome TRD Header HKS Exhaust ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:48:29 -0500 (EST) From: Ace Subject: Re: MR2 Home Dyno ? - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, sirmike wrote: > > > Thomas Funder wrote: > > > Eh, sounds interestig. If any of you guys (or gals) have trid this I'd > > *really* like to hear about your experiences. > > > > As a bonus I'll offer to keep a backup for you, totally free. The backup > > will be deposited in a fire/shock proof safe ;-D > > > > (BTW: If you missed the initial post, have a look at: > > http://www.charm.net/~mchaney/homedyno/dynokit.htm) > > > > Regards > > Thomas Funder > > thomas.funder@cbs.dk > > '88 NA MKI > > Oh yeah and I'll put it on a CD for a nominal fee..hehee..And I can backup > any other software you may have misplaced as well! > > Mike C > > (BTW I was joking about the illegality of the issue, but I figure some > people really don't take well to it..Yea yea it was somebody's hard work) > > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:54:13 EST From: Ltraviolnc Subject: Re: MR2 the BGB In a message dated 98-01-12 13:43:31 EST, samk@cs.man.ac.uk writes: > So... my question.... exactly how many versions of these books > are there? One for every year. >Which is the ideal one for my me? The 88 version. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:00:57 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: MR2 Humor Brad and a friend of his thought they'd have a bit of experimental fun and decided to see how fast a bicycle could go before it became uncontrollable. Brad let his friend tie a bike to the bumper of his MR2. So Brad's friend tied his bike to the back of the car and said to Brad: "I'll ring my bike bell once if I want you to go faster, twice if I want you maintain speed, and repeatedly if I want you to slow down." With that, off they went. Things were going pretty well. Brad slowly sped up to well over 60 mph. The guy on the bike was handling the speed just fine. But, all of sudden, a black Corvette came up beside them and before you knew it Brad forgot all about his friend on the bike and began racing the Corvette. A little further down the road sat Officer John in his police cruiser, radar gun at the ready. He heard the two cars before his radar flashed 137 mph. He called into headquarters on his radio: "Hey, you guys aren't going to believe this, but there's a Corvette and a MR2 racing out here on Highway 3, and there's a guy on a bike ringing his bell to overtake!" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:50:38 EST From: Ltraviolnc Subject: Re: MR2 - MKI Emmisions Testing & HKS Exhaust/TRD Headers & Flats! In a message dated 98-01-12 13:03:14 EST, jdove@pc888.mdsi.bc.ca writes: > Oh, and Anyone running a TRD > Header... do you have a gasket between the header and the head? I was > thinking that maybe I don't need one, and that's why it's leaking. Glad to hear you passed. I guess the new converter made a big improvement. I was also surprised that my header did'nt come with a gasket...you think that it's not too much to ask considering the outrageous price you pay for it. Anyway, you need a gasket. I used the new manifold gasket that was in the Fel- Pro set I had since I was rebuilding my engine at the same time. Did you use a torque wrench to tighten it? The bolts don't need to be very tight, but they do need to be even. Just a suggestion, but I would still replace the O2 sensor if it has more than 60k miles on it...if not right away, then soon. Ron 87/\/\R2 Ltraviolnc@aol.com ICQ: 3087083 ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #98