mr2-digest Friday, January 9 1998 Volume 02 : Number 085 MR2 Mk1 Eagle Emblem MR2: Boost Gauge in SC recommendations Re: MR2 Alignment question Re: MR2 MKI Frontal Area Re: MR2 Mustang Cobra Re: MR2 How to take off Gauge Needles? Re: MR2 Mk1 NA Qs MR2 Frozen Parking Brake on MK1 Re: MR2 Mustang Cobra Re: MR2 Anyone know about Supras MR2 Re: Big-black keys MR2 Mk II Power Steering, DS Locks, Other ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:59:40 -0500 From: "Tommy Guttmann" Subject: MR2 Mk1 Eagle Emblem > I previously asked the following question: > > >My car has an odd bonnet badge - a bit like a German > >eagle, on a red backgorund (clashes badly with the blue > >paintwork!) The eagle symbol appears again on the rear bumper. > >I don't see it on other toyotas or any of the toyota bumpf I got > >with the car. Is it the logo of an after-market body-kit company? > > A number of people have politely informed me that is the > standard MR2 bonnet badge (hang on, just wiping some egg off my > face...) This got me thinking (dangerous) - WHY does the car > have such a badge? Is this species of eagle indigenous to the > area of Japan where Toyota are based? Is it supposed to represent > some aspect of the car's character? Then I sussed it! Try this: > Lotus designed the car structure, Yamaha did the engine, and > both were delivered to Toyota. Toyota had a board meeting at which > the following question was asked: "Do we now begin our own development > phase for a car which is 90% complete, or shall we just market as it > is?" Of course they decided against wasting time and money and got > the car to market asap - the only thing required for this was the body > work, and since Toyota had not assembled a development team there > was nobody to do this, so the car was simply covered in > plain sheet steel (no design team required); of course there were > people within Toyota who thought this was a bit cheap, and so to > make up for the lack of styling, the board found funds to design a > nice bonnet badge! A bit far fetched? This theory also accounts > for why the MkII car clearly had more stylists working on it > than any previous Toyota (with possible exception of the 2000GT - > anybody on the list own one of these? I'd love one!). > > If anybody knows the truth behind the bonnet badge (and the MkI > 'not styled' styling) then I'd love to know... Hi Sam, I posted this previously...if anyone questions the Eagle badge, tell them the following (from my fellow SC owner Bert Stadnyk): "It's a tribute to the Mk1s having been inspired by Dan Gurney's Racing Eagles" That oughta shut most dissenters up. Tommy Guttmann tools@tooltech.qc.ca Montreal, Canada 2 x Mk1SC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 11:54:02 -0500 From: "Tommy Guttmann" Subject: MR2: Boost Gauge in SC recommendations > Hi everyone... > > i'm going to be fitting a boost guage into my SC, can anyone who has done > this before reccomend makes/models of guages. > > i'd also be interested in where to connect to and any installation > reccomendations. > > thanks > > mark Hi Mark, Put a T-fitting into the vacuum line (the only one on...you can't miss it) coming from the Intake Manifold to the Brown" Fuel Pressure VSV on the rear Firewall. I ran the line through a hole "carefully" drilled in the firewall, next to the shifter cables, under the console, under the dash, to a windshield post mounted HKS gauge. I used a special pod from BEGI (made for Mustangs) that I modified to fit the contour of the mk1 A-Pillar...but wait...you can't do that can you? Your steering is on the wrong (oops! "right") side. You'll have to find a regular "cup" and mount it in front of the center vent, unless you can find a similar thing for right hand drive and modify it. P.119 of Demon Tweeks 1997 catalogue has a TIM Boost Gauge for L 17 or a SW for about L 40 (white or black face). A mounting cup is shown for L 5. Good luck Tommy Guttmann tools@tooltech.qc.ca Montreal, Canada 2 x Mk1SC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 09:20:12 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 Alignment question Hank Wallace wrote: > > I just replaced my front tires with Yoko AVSI's 205/50-15. Although I > bought the tires from the Tire Rack, I had NTB mount, balance, and do the > alignment. Now my steering wheel is not right and they say they can't fix > it. What do you mean "is not right"? If you are talking about the wheel being centered when you drive straight, this is simple, and the alignment shop can fix this in seconds. Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 09:20:02 -0800 From: Jonathan Oellrich Subject: Re: MR2 MKI Frontal Area >>> ahauswal 01/08 8:36 PM >>> HI all, I can find the Drag Coefficient at 0.35, and the Aerodynamic Drag @ 50 mph is 8.5hp. If you don't have the F.A. figure, maybe you've got a formula I can plug these numbers into that will give my the Frontal Area. Thanks. Arnie. '86 MKI >>> If you really trust that the aerodynamic drag at 50 mph is 8.5 hp, then this is easy: power = rho*Cd*A*V^3/2 where rho is the density of the air in slugs/ft^3 (don't have a good number for that handy, 0.00234 comes to mind) Cd = 0.35, and make sure to convert velocity to ft/s...73.333 ft/s at 50 mph. Oh, and power has to be converted to lb*ft/s, at 550 lb*ft/s = 1 hp. So if the car really has 8.5 hp of drag at 50 mph (where did you get this, BTW?) then frontal area is: A = 8.5*550*2/(.35*.00234*394370) = 2.63 ft^2 This is not right, so one or more of the following values are off: both the power figure you mentioned and my guess at density are tops on the list, but also the estimate of Cd: in reality, Cd is defined from this equation, so that a drag test is performed and a measured(?) value for A is plugged in and Cd is solved for; which all means that we are getting an estimate of frontal area based on a good stab at Cd, instead of the other way around. Where did that 8.5 hp come from? Jon '87 that now seeks bare, dry roads and that monster tailwind ! ! ! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:25:23 -0500 (EST) From: Joe Musmanno Subject: Re: MR2 Mustang Cobra Hi, folks. Brian wrote: > I absolutely hate [Mustang Cobras] and their overconfident Pony Car drivers > [...] The clutch required an > inordinate amount of pressure as did the break [sic] pedal. I couldn't > tell if I was shifting into third or fifth. The power was unimpressive. > I think a mr2T running with stock boost and a poor ignition system would > still eat this car up. And Steve B. wrote: > The only Cobra I liked was the one with the 'shifting colors' paint scheme. > [...] About the owners - true. [...] Normally I steer clear of these purely anecdotal discussions about cars that have extremely little to do with the list (except the obvious "our cars are much better than these" connection). I also tend to feel that if one is not part of the solution (of irrelevant or insipid postings to otherwise useful mailing lists), one is part of the problem. I am making an exception this time because with a broad sweep of the electronic pen, I have been insulted, and I hope that by posting my opinions, rather than sending them directly to Brian and Steve as would be my normal practice, I will stem the tide of "me too" posts (like Steve's, for example). I own a Mustang GT and a MR2 MK-II, and I drive each of them several times per week. They do different things well, and I typically think that if you expect two cars that have so little in common to be comperable in so simple a manner, you have a lot to learn. The Mustangs accelerate forward cheaply, and there are a zillion aftermarket parts and services available (cheaply) for them. The Mustangs do these things *very* well, and yes, they do them by leaps and bounds better than MR2s. The Mustangs are also bigger, and carry a lot more cargo (in terms of weight AND volume). The MR2s accelerate sideways and backward very well. They are smaller, lighter, and "zippyer". In these regards, they put the Mustang to shame. But, they also cost more, both to buy and maintain, and they don't go forward very well. But not everyone's racetrack is the same configuration and size. I haven't raced much, but it clearly makes sense to use the right tool for the job. For me, that would mean Mr.2 for some races, and the Mustang for others. I am *very* confident that each could "blow the other away" one race to the next. As for "overconfident" drivers, well, there are certainly a lot of them out there. But it is naive to think that idiot pony car drivers are really any different from idiot sports car drivers, or idiot minivan drivers, or idiot SUV drivers, or idiot Honda drivers. What they have in common is much more significant than their cars: it's that they are idiotic. Let's all try to avoid being like them, shall we? Want to hear something *really* scary? In regular (spirited) daily driving, I get the same gas mileage out of the two cars!! Regards, - -j - ----- Joseph F. Musmanno Atlantic Aerospace Electronics Corp. joe@aaec.com .-. . -- . -- -... . .-. -.. . .- - .... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 09:31:25 -0800 (PST) From: "Harry C. Wang" Subject: Re: MR2 How to take off Gauge Needles? Don't the NR white face gauges come with a tool to take the needle off? On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Ardell L. Simon wrote: > Anyone know how to take off the gauge needles on an MKII to do a white face > install??? > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 17:47:17 GMT From: Aideen McConville Subject: Re: MR2 Mk1 NA Qs Hi Sam, Congrats on the new car. I bought my '88 mica blue MR2 7 years ago and am still driving and very much enjoying it (98k miles). Re: Temp. gauge problem. No it's definitely not normal! (and you're brave to drive it with the needle in the red!). After driving it, if you open the engine cover - do things appear very hot or is coolant gurgling noisily? If so you definitely have an overheating problem (maybe sticking thermostat?). BEWARE of driving it like this or you could do expensive damage. If not very hot/gurgling, then the temp guage or switch may be faulty. Emptying/re-filling the cooling system on MR2's needs special care. See handbook, (plastic tubes stored under front bonnet), and technical info on http://www.mr2.com/. It's hard to bleed the system properly (radiator in the front and long tubes running to the engine in the back). Apparently it's a job that even the dealership mechanics don't like doing. If you have strange rising and falling revs at idle, then you've got air in the cooling system. High idling revs (2000rpm or even a little more) are normal when the engine's cold. Don't try to adjust - it's supposed to do that! MR2s are filled from new with ready-made-up coolant called ForLife. It's rather expensive and contrary to it's name is supposed to be replaced every 2/3 years. Opinions differ as to whether this "special" coolant is really required i.e. what magic ingredient could be in there? However, horror stories abound of ordinary coolant chewing up gaskets etc. It's your baby - do you want to risk it? On the positive side, if it has a full service history, it's probably been well cared for. Can you contact the previous owner to ask about the temp gauge? Has the car sat unused for a long time? How many miles has it done? Another area worth paying particular attention to is the rear wheel-arches - if yours have no rust - guard them jealously :-) Washing the mud from behind the wheelarch rim area is recommended. They're very expensive to repair properly. A recent edition of the UK MR2DC's mag had an artcle about repair panels. I think it was a repair panel from a Nissan micra that was deemed the best fit. I can check this if anyone is interested. Also look after the interior (BIG affect on resale value) - replacing the seats costs more than replacing the engine! Happy driving, - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Aideen McConville Phone: +44 1223 578761 Persimmon IT Inc Fax: +44 1223 322501 The Westbrook Centre, Milton Road email: aideen@persimmon.com Cambridge, UK, CB41YG http://www.persimmon.com/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 10:14:28 -0800 From: Scott Holz Subject: MR2 Frozen Parking Brake on MK1 Because of the low temp last night (25F), my parking brake on my '87 MR2 was stuck on this morning. I went ahead and drove it until it finally released after about 5 miles. Other than rear brake wear, I hope driving while the parking brake engaged didn't tweak something. I've never heard of a fix for the MK1s sticky parking brake. My carport is on a slight decline. My concern is leaving the parking brake off and putting the weight of my car on the tranny. Does anyone know if leaving my car in 1st with the parking brake off will damage the tranny? Also I'm thinking the car might pop out of gear and roll. So if leaving the brake off is the only solution, I'll have to block the wheels when I park at home (oh joy). Scott ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 13:20:22 -0500 From: Steve Bagdon Subject: Re: MR2 Mustang Cobra > Normally I steer clear of these purely anecdotal discussions about cars that > have extremely little to do with the list (except the obvious "our cars are > much better than these" connection). I also tend to feel that if one is > not part of the solution (of irrelevant or insipid postings to otherwise > useful mailing lists), one is part of the problem. I am making an exception > this time because with a broad sweep of the electronic pen, I have been > insulted, and I hope that by posting my opinions, rather than sending them > directly to Brian and Steve as would be my normal practice, I will stem > the tide of "me too" posts (like Steve's, for example). As a rule (which of course can be broken), most 'sports' car drivers can be classed into groups. Late-model Taurus SHOs are a good example - most in Detroit (as I've seen) are driven by Ford middle-managers (MR/PSR), and if they manage the way they drive, it's a scary thought. Most of the SHOs in Detroit during rush hour are more agressive and rude then Mustangs/Camaros - tail-gating, not letting people merge from entrances, rabbit starts/stops, etc. MR2s, on the other in hand, in Detroit, are usually polite, courteous, respectful, etc. Then again, driving a Toyota MR2 in Detroit makes you a moving target. :) It's good to know your enemy. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Jan 1998 13:20:23 -0500 From: Steve Bagdon Subject: Re: MR2 Anyone know about Supras > On a similar note, my friend who tunes rotary and circle track racecars > showed me an article that showed the difference between a motor running > 26psi, and the same engine running 15-17psi but with some relatively > simple engine/head work such as flowed heads and some cam timing, and > the lower psi engine produced around 60-80HP more than the engine that > just tried to stuff more air in the manifold. Both had the same intake > and exhaust. A fairly interesting article. Let's not forget the difference between pressure increases caused by heat expansion (psi), and pressure increases caused by an incresae in mass increase (cfm). The CT-26 will produce 17psi, but as you get that high in psi your psi increase is usually from heat expansion (the air is hotter, not denser). Most upgraded and re-trimmed turbos (eg: HKS Sport Turbo) will produce more power and lower psi. That's mainly from an increase in mass without an increase in temp (turbo runs cooler). Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:28:32 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: MR2 Re: Big-black keys Steve B. wrote: >BTW, Genuine Toyota black-rubber coated key blanks are *not* cheap. I >believe I spent $15(!!!) on the 'big' black-key for my '91T (and the >dealership that *cut* the key wouldn't gaurantee the cut!), and about $7 >for the 'small' black-key for my '90 Camry All-Trac. But that big-black >'91T key sure looks nice on my key-chain, and it sure feels nice when >turning the lock cylinders. > I agree about those big black keys. I just got a couple made for my MR2s. They had to order the blanks for me. However, my parts guy did guarantee the cut (Howard at Russell Toyota in Catonsville, MD). I have two MR2s and have both keys on one key chain, so I painted the 'TOYOTA' white for the white car and yellow for the yellow car so I can quickly find which key to use. Looks good, too. Brad Burns '91T '93NA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Jan 1998 13:51:30 -0500 From: jhaluska@notes.cc.bellcore.com Subject: MR2 Mk II Power Steering, DS Locks, Other I have had the same problems with my 93T. The driver's side lock needs to be fiddled with to get it to open, and is worse in the cold weather. Passenger side, trunk, and glove box are fine - I'll bet this is due to the fact that they get very little use compared to the DS door. Of course the ignition gets as much use as the DS door so that may blow away my theory. I had a similar problem with the power steering, several months ago. For a stretch of about a week, the PS light came on and there was no assist. It was intermittent and then went away. I should mention a few other things. I had a noise coming from the front passenger side, seemed like it could have been the commonl-described wheel well problem, but having my 60k maint done it was found that the strut spring cushoin was never removed when the car was shipped. The service manager told me that he had seen these on other cars as well. I am having some problem that I wonder if anyone may have suggestions for. When the road surface is uneven, especially when it has "ruts" worn in it (might also say the road is "crowned"), then the vehicle pulls strongly, and this increases when I slow to a stop. Also seems to wander a bit on the highway. The alignment, balljoints, and tie rods are fine. One other thing - sometimes during boost I hear what might be called a thump or even a gulp from the engine. Any idea what this is? Is it a problem? John Haluska 93T Red Previous owner of 91NA red, 86NA black. ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #85