mr2-digest Wednesday, January 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 073 Re: MR2 reckless endangerment? MR2 TSD Rallies Re: MR2 TSD Rallies Re: MR2 COURT INFO FROM SUMMER ACCIDENT Re: MR2 RE: The final word on MK1 top speed Re: MR2 Anyone in TX, OK, KS, or MO MR2 MK1 black air box? MR2 MK1 black air box? MR2 Inoperative driver's side windcreen wiper - Mk1 MR2 RC Engineering injectors for sale on "mint" MR2's and lots MR2 Importing Cars MR2 black listing Re: MR2 Black listing Re: MR2 used car dealers MR2 93 suspension differences? RE: (Fwd) MR2 all MK2 exhaust manifold owners!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:26:53 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 reckless endangerment? Thoughts on speeding.... There are some instances (as someone else noted...downing a six pack and then driving) that are obviously, plainly wrong. Everything else is a judgement call and may or may not be incorrect. Most of the judgements then rely upon likelyhoods and probabilities. Is it 100% wrong to drive after drinking one beer? I wouldn't use the fact that a 10 year old child is in the car as a basis for the reasoning, because would it matter at all if his car doing 132mph lost control and hit another car with a family in it? Of course not, but the likelyhood is more that the child in the car going 132 would be injured than another car (since there would be far more single car accidents). Accidents are caused by many variables, usually more than one combining at the wrong time. Speed is another variable, but so are many other things. Driving at the speed limit in a downpour may be worse. Would I drive 132 with my child in the car? Nope. Would I drive 100 with them, yes, and I have. I know there are some drivers who would be aghast that I would drive my minivan at 100mph with the family in it. Again, probabilities, and circumstances of the road and time. Would I drive on any public road at 130+? Nope, but that's me. I have, but I wouldn't do it again. I think Ron's point is possibly valid, but at some point we are all open to being criticized for our driving. We have taken folks to task for speeding in the city, driving at 10/10ths using the whole road, etc. Lets not start a huge thread swar over this. Too late, I know. My take..You want speed thrills? Take it on a track. Spirited driving and want to see what your car and you can do? Autox it. And I would never be proud of being able to go fast in a straight line, anyone can push the accelerator down. Whats the point? Anyone who knows me will tell you that I drive like a madman on the street. But, I will also tell you that I don't take chances when I drive, and I try to account for those variables. I was forced to watch a government film about variables when they took my license away as a youngster. 8-P Enough... randy chase "swerving in San Diego" '91 MR2 N/A *needing a battery...7 year batteries only last 7 years. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 11:35:08 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: MR2 TSD Rallies Does anyone on this list do the TSD (time/speed/distance) rallies on streets (not the dirt ones). I did one of these in my MR2 7 years ago and had a blast. They had 3 classes, one for guys with on board computers, one of the normal rally guys, and one of us newbies who were having fun. I didn't do well in that you had to go slower than I wanted at times to maintain your speed to get a "zero" at the next checkpoint, but we did have a lot of fun in deciphering the clues that were given. This rally had about 10 checkpoints and each journey in between was a puzzle to figure out. Thought it would be fun to do this with some other MR2s. Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:50:43 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremy A White Subject: Re: MR2 TSD Rallies On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, Randy Chase wrote: > Does anyone on this list do the TSD (time/speed/distance) rallies on > streets (not the dirt ones). I did one of these in my MR2 7 years ago > and had a blast. They had 3 classes, one for guys with on board > computers, one of the normal rally guys, and one of us newbies who were > having fun. I do TSD. Last year I did 5 rallys, but only 2 in my MR2. I drive in the novice class. > I didn't do well in that you had to go slower than I wanted at times to > maintain your speed to get a "zero" at the next checkpoint, but we did > have a lot of fun in deciphering the clues that were given. This rally > had about 10 checkpoints and each journey in between was a puzzle to > figure out. > Thought it would be fun to do this with some other MR2s. Fast os Easy. Slow is Easy. Steady is difficult. The MR2 is almost ideal due to the fact that you don't necessarily have to slow down for the corners :) If the yellow suggested speed sign says 30mph, I usually figure I can slide through without slowing if I am at CST 60mph :) Here is a link to our local rally pages... http://www.teleport.com/~kidvolt/sites/leftright/ - -Jeremy White ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 11:57:15 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Carroll Subject: Re: MR2 COURT INFO FROM SUMMER ACCIDENT On Tue, 6 Jan 1998, Ardell L. Simon wrote: > I originally was cited from my summer accident with: > > UNSAFE SPEED $60 fine...2pts > WRECKLESS DRIVING $200 fine....loss of license for 6 months. As I recall, the accident wasn't particularly "wreckless," was it? Reckless, maybe. - -- Terry Carroll | Santa Clara, CA | carroll@tjc.com | Modell delendus est | ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:20:07 -0800 (PST) From: myt@cypress.com (Micky Thutiyakul / Product Engineer) Subject: Re: MR2 RE: The final word on MK1 top speed > Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:27:01 -0500 > From: "Tommy Guttmann" > Subject: MR2 RE: The final word on MK1 top speed > > How very true this observation is. > I noticed that I was driving the new (old) "stock" SC that I just picked up, > a lot quicker than my old tweaked one. > I guess, because the "stock" one has lower limits (softer chassis , etc.) > it makes it a bit easier to feel confident in pushing it a little harder on > street. It's not as "extreme". > Plus maybe the fact that the stock SC doesn't have a loud exhuast that attracts the attention of the entire neighborhood under WOT? > > I recall original road tests of SCs from magazine to magazine ranging wildly > from 6.5 secs to 7.5. I guess part of this may have been that some shifted > at 7500, while others may have shifted when best (for a stock one, anyway) > which if I remember correctly was lower (around 7000?) Besides all > the countless other variables... > Car & Driver's test of a '88 SC yielded 0-60 in 6.5 secs. MotorTrend's test of a '89 SC yielded 0-60 in 7.84 secs. Is it just the driver or could it be the model year? The "only" changes were to the 3rd brake lamp and the addition of the rear anti-roll bar. I'd give up the rear bar on the '89 SC if it'll drop 0-60 by 1.34 secs! Micky '89 SC MR2 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:05:09 -0600 From: "Nathan Dyck" Subject: Re: MR2 Anyone in TX, OK, KS, or MO Hi Aaron, Yes, there are quite a few members in the DFW area. The web page for the local IMOC chapter is http://www.eden.com/~roneill/texasmr2/ If you are interested in autocrossing, check out Equipe Rapide at http://www.autocross.com/er I race with them on a regular basis. Next event is Feb. 22, I believe. There are usually 2-5 MR2 owners that show up. Nathan Dyck 91 MR2 Turbo Crimson Red AS4 Dallas, TX >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:10:01 EST >From: Mr2toy726 >Subject: MR2 Anyone in TX, OK, KS, or MO > >I am pretty new to the list and haven't figured out the geography of it yet. >By any chance is there anyone in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area? I live in Denton, >just north of Dallas, but I travel to OK, KS, and Missouri for business >occasionally. > >Thanks, > >Aaron >91 NA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:20:36 PST From: "Todd klosnick" Subject: MR2 MK1 black air box? What is the purpose of that black plastic box in the engine compartment? Its behind the battery, near the filter. thanks Todd 87 MR2 Please visit my awful web page. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:21:15 PST From: "Todd klosnick" Subject: MR2 MK1 black air box? What is the purpose of that black plastic box in the engine compartment? Its behind the battery, near the filter. thanks Todd 87 MR2 Please visit my awful web page. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 98 21:11:15 GMT From: Jeff Duckworth Subject: MR2 Inoperative driver's side windcreen wiper - Mk1 The driver's side (UK car) windscreen wiper has stopped working. I looked under the bulkhead to discover that the arm linking the 2 wiper arms has popped off (there is a ball and socket type arrangement). I asked my Toyota dealer if they could supply a replacement plastic socket but you have to buy the whole linkage including both sides!!!!!!!!!! Has anyone any ideas where I can just get a socket (besides breakers yards) ? Regards Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:26:01 -0700 From: Mattled@webtv.net (Matt Ledbetter) Subject: MR2 RC Engineering injectors for sale I am exchanging a set of RC Engineering 650cc injectors for a set of 500's. RC is only going to do an equal trade. The 500's are about $360, and the 650's were close to $600. So if anyone is interested in the set of 650's, email me immediately. I would rather sell them on the digest for the $360+shipping than send them back in to RC. Please email immediaely if interested. (4) Bosch 650cc Peak and hold, 2.5 ohms - -Matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 12:21:52 -0800 From: william brandt Subject: on "mint" MR2's and lots ...I spent a year off and on before I found my '86 - and it was by far not perfect. previous owner hated putting any money into it other than oil changes. Passenger window didn't work right (new reg; stripped nylon gear), guy had hit a log and front fender was (is) just a bit "buckled), etc. Still I paid about $3300 for it... I truely think that MOST of the MR2's you'll encounter on the market today are pretty thrashed - best bets are ones owned by older people - and enthusiasts groups. Mint / Creampuff today means that they are capapble of moving for short distances under thair own power... Bill William L. Brandt wbco@wbco.com Sacramento, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:06:26 -0500 From: Lim Yi Tee Subject: MR2 Importing Cars Hi guys, In the LA Auto Show, D2 brought in their own Skyline GTR. According to one of the staff, the car is registered and legal on the road. I wonder if this is possible and if so, what are the procedures involved. Thanks ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:20:02 -0800 From: william brandt Subject: MR2 black listing This subject has come up before. Somebody got screwed. I think if a buyer is reasonable he/she should expect to send a check before something gets shipped. If the seller doesn't know the buyer well even allow 1-2 weels for check clearance. OTOH I think I know a number of people on this list well enough to just ship & wait. Seller's call. I did sell my "bra" a couple of weeks ago - buyer was understandable a bit antsy sending me his check (even for $25) - I had to reassure him. It goes both ways. Trust - that's what it comes down to. I think normally if I were selling repetitive items (shift boots, etc) I'd wait for the check. That's reasonable. Bill William L. Brandt wbco@wbco.com Sacramento, CA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:41:15 -0800 From: Jonathan Oellrich Subject: Re: MR2 Black listing >>> "Thomas Funder" 01/07 11:21 AM >>> All this talk about Black List, got me thinking.... Why don't we just make a list of people that have proven to be honest, I personally know quite a few ;-) in order to submit someone to the list you have to be on it yourself. Ok ok ok, "What about the first" I know, you figure that out! I've done the initial thinking :D >>> I like this idea: sort of a Better Business Bureau of mailing list buyers. As to who should be first, I think there are a few people on this list who have managed large orders or who have sold something to a lot of people and are in a position to provide both a fair number of members' names and a certain degree of trustworthiness since so many people have trusted them with some money. The first name that comes to mind is Ken Farrell, although I am loath to go volunteering people, so I only mention him as an example--especially since we are just kicking ideas around here. The reason I like this is that it reflects the fact that the vast majority of people on this list are honest people--in the last several months I have been dealing with a fair number of list members as I've sold the short shift kit for the Mk1, and I have yet to have any transaction with any member that I regretted. On the other hand, I guess I have never sent anything without at least a personal check in hand, so I imagine there are some who would say that this experience is not as valuable in determining who is honest and who is not as if I had trusted each of these people implicitly and shipped the kit before payment was received. This is a valid concern, and I don't have all the answers, either. Jon '87 that likes to get things from list members ! ! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 15:09:03 PST From: "Sean Boileau" Subject: Re: MR2 used car dealers My rule of thumb: take the dealer's asking price, then subtract 50-75%. Stick closer to 50% if you're really interested. Mike, That is an interesting theory, however I don't think that you can generalize like that... Tonight I showed a Jeep at my dealership that we were buried in - asking price was $12,995 and we actually paid $12,500 for it. Fighting stereotypes everywhere, Sean the cheesy used car salesman 91 NA ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 17:17:24 -0800 From: "James Carroll" Subject: MR2 93 suspension differences? I'm new to the list, or at least I will be in 5 days when I take delivery of my 93 NA MR2. I'm curious what exactly is the suspension difference between the 92 and the 93. I know it was altered to make the car less tail-happy, but I don't know exactly what was changed to do this. Thanks, James Carroll jjcarr@bpainc.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 15:33:21 -0800 From: "Corey Lawson" Subject: RE: (Fwd) MR2 all MK2 exhaust manifold owners!! OK, I've scanned the page that Terry got and faxed me (thanks...). Y'all can see it at: http://www-chem.ucsd.edu/~clawson/ Yes, I know my web "page" is pretty lame. Oh. EGR Tube for 1991 MR2T is 5 yr/50KMiles. $130 or so at Kearny Mesa Toyota to fix it. I think I'll be doing it myself, if the part is only $44... I only have 8000 miles to get the manifold checked/broken-if-ok/replaced... I was at KMT on Friday, 2 Jan 1998 to get looked at. Why they couldn't do a visual check on the exhaust manifold... But, yes, my EGR tube is cracked. Anyways. When I asked the service person about the manifold and warranty, she said nothing about it having to be done before 1 Jan 1998... How hard is it to put new rear brake pads on? KMT noted that mine were getting pretty thin... El Cajon's new "tourist" slogan: Gas is cheaper in El Cajon! ($1.50-60/gal for 92 Octane). Still cheaper at NEX, for us military dependents... - -Corey Lawson clawson@ucsd.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: TerrySaltzman@home.com [mailto:TerrySaltzman@home.com] > Sent: Friday, December 26, 1997 5:42 PM > To: clawson@ucsd.edu > Subject: (Fwd) MR2 all MK2 exhaust manifold owners!! > > > ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- > From: TerrySaltzman@home.com > Organization: T's Boneless Chicken Ranch "hang with us!" > To: mr2-announce@mr2.com, Troy Pummill > , > svogeding@earthlink.net (Jefferson) > Date: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 19:37:18 -0008 > Subject: MR2 all MK2 exhaust manifold owners!! > > > > troy ! paul ! jefferson V ! all MK2 3S-GTE and 5S-FE owners- > > just got back from KMT (Kearney Mesa Toyota) here in san diego (my > home dealer) to pick up another hood prop clip. i go through these > like santa goes through elves (over worked under paid union boyz). > it was closing time and i was able to snag a mech to listen to my > "ticking" to varify my egr tube. its the tube (second one too). cool. > guy did it on his way out to his car and off the clock no less!! > > got to talking to the service manager (denny politee) about the > exhaust manifold thingy. here is the deal (in short): > > in california UNTIL 1998 thats in a few days!!! > > > if you: > > have 3S-GTE your exhaustmanifold is covered 7 yrs/70K. this is in Cal > and in Mass. this is a factory "Defect" and is at Toyota cost > ~600.00. your cost if you DONT get it fixed in time 1998 ~1000+. the > rules change in 1998 (in a few days) to "specified" exhaust > componets. denny has no idea why they (toyota) is doing this > "specified" thingy. he suspects toyota wants to keep th einfo under > control and the dealers have to call in to find out the "specified" > componets. he is checking into it and i will contact him on monday. > > another thing...1997 the emissions warranty went to 3 yrs 50k down > from 5yrs 50k. toyota must be trying to plug the hole (yes its a > pun). > > > have a 5S-FE motor your 7/70k (ca and mass) "Exhaust pipe (manifold > to catalyst and/or catalyst to catalyst) on tercel; > paseo.....MR2....with 3S-FE or 5S-FE." is covered. but then again > under the new 1998 pocketbook it is subject to the "specified" > terminology whatever this means. i personally get very suspicious of > this kind of vague language. > > this info was garnished from the "1997 WARRANTY POCKET HANDBOOK", > pg.32. i had them (denny) make a copy of this page and have it in my > possession. what i need is someone with a fax machine, a scanner and > a web page for posting. or i can fax it directly to you if needed. > ill try to fax it to myself and email it but the quality is > questionable as ive done this before with bad results. best path > fax/scan/post. copy it and take it to your service person wave it > in his/her face and say "fix it!" (before 1998) > > excuse the announce but this constitutes a possible $1000 savings to > a cal or mass mr2 owner. my advice get into the dealer and get it > done NOW!!! before 1998. hell at least get it documented that this > is the problem and have it dated in 1997. > > btw- the egr tube is 44+ bucks not 30 as i thought. > > > your sort of humble servant > terry > terry > 92turbosteelmistgreyttopsloadedlikeme with to many mods to > list...ahhh what the hell... > 15"fittapaldion5waytokicostrutsmotivatedbyamanualboostcontrollerspinn > ingaTRDkevlarclutchactivaledbymotul600fluidallbrougthtoascreaminghalt > bystainlesssteelbraidedlinespushingmotul600topowerstopcadniumplatedcr > ossdrilledrotorsthatclampcarbotechpadsintherearafterwhichiturnoth > eturbotimer. > ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #73