mr2-digest Wednesday, January 7 1998 Volume 02 : Number 072 MR2 Black Listing MR2 Anyone in TX, OK, KS, or MO MR2 MKII Shifter ???'s MR2 Supertouring series canceled MR2: SC Registry?? Re: MR2 MKII- Looking to buy 93 turbo trans. Re: MR2 sunroof rattles MR2 anti-speeding drivel Re: MR2 anti-speeding drivel Re: MR2 anti-speeding drivel Re: MR2 Florida emissions testing MR2 re: harness and rollbar MR2 MKII TURBO: Cat removal Re: MR2 Black listing ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 10:56:35 -0500 From: "Tommy Guttmann" Subject: MR2 Black Listing > > Jeff says a very wise thing. How could you guarantee that the "black > > list" wouldn't be used to hurt someone, or lash out because you feel you > > were mistreated (both parties have their own point of view on it). It's > > obvious for cases where someone gets stiffed, but I wouldn't use it for > > other cases. > > Some other groups I'm part of have some members who regularly buy and sell > several thousand $ worth of equipment every month, pretty much all over the > net. In support of this they have net.references, just like in real life. > It's not very organized though, it's more "back alley asking around", which > IMO is more subject to one person's ill will or vindictiveness. > > If someone made a "Black/White List", which had the buyer's name & email, the > seller's name & email and a "satisfaction rating" from 1-10, I think this > could be very useful w/o being very abusable. (Optionally the entry might have > comments, or some details of the transaction, perhaps simply dollar amount.) > People who bought or sold something would post the concise details, and > you could find out about someone by writing to people they'd dealt with. > One unhappy person might badmouth others, but you would presumably also > see input from other satisfied people. If one person badmouthed *many* > people there, their opinions would probably be taken with a grain of salt. > OTOH someone who stiffed even a few people would have a number of marks > showing against them. > > As a courtesy, people would take a minute to submit the results of their > transactions, good or bad, since the system only really works if people > compliment as well as complain. > > > Who would the jury be to decide if this joins the "black list". All > > theoretical of course. > > Each potential buyer/seller would be the "Jury". They'd review the evidence, > ask for clarification via email, and render their own verdict. It's true > that every business will have some unsatisfied customers, but most should > have many more happy ones. This setup would let us see that, and also > identify any *unjustified* chronic complainers who would make mountains > out of molehills. > > Chris C. > > p.s. So far I've bought things from Matt Ledbetter, David Hawkins, Steve B. > and MR2PP, and have been 100% satisfied in each case. I've bought several things and each time I've sent my money IN ADVANCE. Heck, I even paid in advance for a car...sight unseen in another country! For me, it boils down to trust. I wouldn't enter into transactions of this nature if I felt bad about the individual. With all of these transactions I felt I was dealing with "friends". Obviously doing actual "business" this way is impractical and not feasible. We can't possibly know all out business customers this intimately. I've had more than one instance in business where I've had to bite the bullet and suffer substantial losses. In all these instances I had received good references (obviously they cite suppliers that they do pay...not the ones they don't). What it boils down to is that unless you are a utility or some with collateral, if a customer doesn't want to pay, he simply won't. And there's not much you can do about it I've found that trying to pursue collection though legal channels often amounts to throwing good money after bad. If they really don't want to pay, they've more than likely made themselves invulnerable...or alternatively, if they "can't", then trying to collect is like trying to get blood out of a rock. The point of all this being that I feel we have a sort of covenant between us here and that we should try to leave it at that...at least for "private" transactions between us. I think the vast majority of us respect each other and in turn want each other's respect in return. I much prefer a voluntary honor system (guess I'd feel different if I'd been screwed...who knows...) Just my .02 Tommy Guttmann tools@tooltech.qc.ca Montreal, Canada 2 x Mk1SC ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:10:01 EST From: Mr2toy726 Subject: MR2 Anyone in TX, OK, KS, or MO I am pretty new to the list and haven't figured out the geography of it yet. By any chance is there anyone in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area? I live in Denton, just north of Dallas, but I travel to OK, KS, and Missouri for business occasionally. Thanks, Aaron 91 NA BTW how may members are there on this list? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:07:22 EST From: Mr2toy726 Subject: MR2 MKII Shifter ???'s Do all 91-92 MKII's use the same shifter? Or are the turbos different from the NA's? Does anyone know what the difference is? What makes the 93 shifter so much better? What is mechanically different about it? Thanks, Aaron 91 NA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:19:31 -0800 From: "BryanW" Subject: MR2 Supertouring series canceled Fellow list members, I have just learned that the supertouring series has been canceled due to Chrysler Motor Co. pulling out. The series promotors see this as a huge impact due to Chrysler being there biggest sponsor. I am terribly saddened to see this happen as this form of racing is truly a joy to watch. I invite all of you to go to www.supertouring .com and fill out the guest book and get the contact info and write or call some people to try and get the 99 season back. Just go to the web site and they have links to the related pages. It is sad to see just how much power corporate america has on the things you and I love. Bryan--another rainy day in northen california - ------------------------------------------------------ | How long do you want to wait for your Email? | http://www.goplay.com/email/1000003 - it's FREE! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 17:06:49 +0000 From: Mark Nias Subject: MR2: SC Registry?? Hi, can anyone tell me the address for the SC Registry Website, the link i have has gone bad: http://www.userpages.com/shoult/sc-reg.html-ssi many thanks mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:26:11 -0500 From: "David Aucott" Subject: Re: MR2 MKII- Looking to buy 93 turbo trans. You can get a new one from Toyota like I just did! :-) List price is apprx $2100, but you should be able to get 20-25% off from Lou Fusz. You could also scour the country for a used one, but make sure you get limited slip. In case you're wondering, my used one is sold. - -- Dave Aucott daucott@ford.com http://members.aol.com/daucott '86 MR2, '93T MR2, '87 Civic Si, '95 Probe GT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 12:31:43 -0500 From: "David Aucott" Subject: Re: MR2 sunroof rattles >does anyone out-there has the instruction of how to solve the sunroof >rattles??? I've seen one posted by inserting weather strip??? >please email to me... thanks... >my sunroof (when open) rattles too much, it's annoying~~~~ This is easy to fix. The source is either the safety clip on the driver side or more likely the black plastic clips that hold the deflector in. You will need to pop out the sunroof and remove the chrome air deflector, then pop out the black clips and put foam or felt or something under them (or even glue them) and snap them back in. You can also put felt on the part where the air deflector snaps onto its clips. Works every time. - -- Dave Aucott daucott@ford.com http://members.aol.com/daucott '86 MR2, '93T MR2, '87 Civic Si, '95 Probe GT ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:47:58 -0800 From: David Kucharczyk Subject: MR2 anti-speeding drivel >Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 01:34:16 EST >From: Ltraviolnc >Subject: Re: MR2 reckless endangerment? >So, let me get this straight....you were doing 132 for extened/multiple >periods of time (and you thought is was 140) on public roads, in a street >vehicle, WITH A KID IN THE CAR???? What kind of crack were you smoking, >anyway? > >Gee, lets see here....at that speed it would take either: >(1) defective steering, suspension, or driveline component yea, and a small asteroid could drop from the sky and turn you into a bug splat too. it's called taking a calculated risk and you increase your odds by doing things like preventative maintenance and driver training. >(1) tire blowout (not uncommon at high sustained speeds) oh, and you of course have lots of experience and test data to back this up, yes ? ever heard of a thing called speed ratings on tires ? any tire with higher than an H rating is rated for continuous operation faster than a MkI NA can go. >(1) small object, rock, etc in the road (which you would never see) >(1) small section od bad road surface, crack, pothole, etc... bullshit. i've run over things the size of a small deer at about 100MPH and except for upsetting the car for a moment (and turning up the pucker factor) the car kept going just fine. >to equal... > >(1) very DEAD 10 year old....probably to mangled to identify by any other >means except DNA. >If you really did this you not only broke traffic laws (Montana has always had >liberal speed limit enforcing, but never an unlimited, Autobahn like >superhighway), you also probably violated child welfare laws and I'm sure any >REAL cop would've been hauling your sorry ass to jail in about two seconds. current law states that speed must be prudent/reasonable for the conditions. ever been to montana ? many of the less populated states have very long stretches of highway with multiple lanes and good surface conditions. >ps: I've seen people get flamed (me included) for all kinds of silly stuff, so >I was surprised not to see any other responses to this. Am I the only one who >thinks this incident qualifies as unacceptable and criminal? how typical, "because my narrow view causes me to disagree with someone, they are lunatics and criminals". have you ever been to germany ? people drive around at those speeds (and sometimes a lot faster) all the time. they don't seem to think it's reckless or child endangerment. what makes moving the location from there to here somehow different ? do the laws of physics not apply over there ? i can see being upset if the origina1 poster stated that he had just put down 3 six packs of beer before driving at those speeds (or at all), but there wasn't anything to indicate that what he was doing was inherently unsafe. obviously 2 police officers thought so too. dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 10:16:48 PST From: "Gordon Tyrrell" Subject: Re: MR2 anti-speeding drivel I'm only new to this mailing list but I was under the impression that disputes such as this were supposed to be carried out amongst individuals and not inflicted on everyone else. Let everyone have their opinions and share it privately instead of clogging up this mailing list (I know this mail is too) Gordon Red 1995 MR2 GTS turbo (jap import) P.S. Ever seen a crash on the autobahn??? Not a pretty sight. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:24:24 -0500 (EST) From: Donald DiPaula Subject: Re: MR2 anti-speeding drivel thanks for being a voice of sense. i've never been to montana, but i've lived in germany, and i normally ride a CBR, so i go above 100 mph (sometimes way above :) on a fairly regular basis... i agree with all you say. in particular, these cars cannot travel at speeds high enough to make open highway driving as dangerous as driving in the city with traffic. the only accidents i've even heard of at > 100 mph speeds are from television, watching "most spectacular police chases" or some such show. on the other hand, i personally know of dozens and dozens of low-speed accidents that have occurred to my own, my friends', or my relatives' cars on city and county (non-highway) roads. would i travel at such speeds with my daughter in the car? well, not if my wife were there. :) but if the conditions suit it, there is nothing inherently more dangerous about a vehicle travelling at its top speed. speed makes accidents worse, but it doesn't, as far as i've been able to determine, cause them. - -D- > >So, let me get this straight....you were doing 132 for extened/multiple > >periods of time (and you thought is was 140) on public roads, in a street > >vehicle, WITH A KID IN THE CAR???? What kind of crack were you smoking, > >anyway? > > > >Gee, lets see here....at that speed it would take either: > >(1) defective steering, suspension, or driveline component > > yea, and a small asteroid could drop from the sky and turn you into a > bug splat too. it's called taking a calculated risk and you increase your > odds by doing things like preventative maintenance and driver training. > > >(1) tire blowout (not uncommon at high sustained speeds) not uncomommon? no one i know has ever had a blowout at _any_ speed. i've found nails, screws, etc. embedded in tires when i look over them while stopped (sometimes penetrating straight through, and the tire holds pressure). i've had several flats on various cars, but no blowouts; they always seem to lose pressure over several minutes, mimimum (plenty of time to notice and stop). > oh, and you of course have lots of experience and test data to back this > up, yes ? ever heard of a thing called speed ratings on tires ? any tire > with higher than an H rating is rated for continuous operation faster > than a MkI NA can go. > > >(1) small object, rock, etc in the road (which you would never see) > >(1) small section od bad road surface, crack, pothole, etc... > > bullshit. i've run over things the size of a small deer at about 100MPH > and except for upsetting the car for a moment (and turning up the pucker > factor) the car kept going just fine. > > >to equal... > > > >(1) very DEAD 10 year old....probably to mangled to identify by any other > >means except DNA. hell, even if they _had_ an accident, they'd pretty much have to hit something solid (like a cliff or a bridge abutment or another car) to get killed. those montana highways are in empty land. > >If you really did this you not only broke traffic laws (Montana has always > had > >liberal speed limit enforcing, but never an unlimited, Autobahn like > >superhighway), you also probably violated child welfare laws and I'm sure any > >REAL cop would've been hauling your sorry ass to jail in about two seconds. > > current law states that speed must be prudent/reasonable for the conditions. > ever been to montana ? many of the less populated states have very long > stretches of highway with multiple lanes and good surface conditions. > > >ps: I've seen people get flamed (me included) for all kinds of silly > stuff, so > >I was surprised not to see any other responses to this. Am I the only one who > >thinks this incident qualifies as unacceptable and criminal? not the only one; most states have well defined maximum speed limits, so lots of people must agree with you. > how typical, "because my narrow view causes me to disagree with someone, > they are lunatics and criminals". > > have you ever been to germany ? people drive around at those speeds (and > sometimes a lot faster) all the time. they don't seem to think it's > reckless or child endangerment. what makes moving the location > from there to here somehow different ? do the laws of physics not apply > over there ? heh. you should see how we drove in the _cities_ in germany. the autobahns didn't give the same butt-pucker factor at all. > i can see being upset if the origina1 poster stated that he had just put > down 3 six packs of beer before driving at those speeds (or at all), but > there wasn't anything to indicate that what he was doing was inherently > unsafe. obviously 2 police officers thought so too. - -D- > dave > Oh, Oh, children of the land, Love is still the answer, take my hand The vision fades, a voice I hear, "Listen to the Madman!" But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the Madman... My 1989 Honda CRX Si is for sale, email me if interested. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 13:53:52 -0500 From: turbochris@ramworks.com (TurboChris) Subject: Re: MR2 Florida emissions testing At 09:12 AM 1/6/98 -0500, Phil Cutajar wrote: >> Did Florida finally get rid of emmissions testing? When last I lived in >> Florida, Dade, Broward, Palm Beach, Orange? (Orlando), and whatever >> counties Tampa and Jacksonville were in had emmisions testing. I figured at >> some point, they would add or subtract counties. I remember moving from >> Leon county (Tallahassee) to Palm Beach county (Boca), and having to get >> used to yearly testing. Jacksonville (Duval county) still requires testing... sigh... Christopher Long TurboChris@ramworks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:51:46 -0500 From: "Miller, Bill [PRI]" Subject: MR2 re: harness and rollbar Racer Wholesale is selling an Auto Pro 3 in. SFI rated 5-point harness for 59.99. This is the exact same harness that I use in my road race car. It would be nice to have the cam-lock kind, but until the SFI runs out (next year) I see no reason to fix something that isn't broken. Also, you should be able to get an Autopower bolt-in bar for $200-$300 and the full cage for about twice that (full cage makes it hard to get in / out because of door bars. My $0.02 Bill PS I concur about the crack smoking guy doing 135+ w his kid in the car. As much as I'd like to do that w/ my kids, it's just not the responsible thing to do. Too much bad stuff can happen at that speed and I could never live (if I was lucky enough to) with getting one of my kids hurt or killed just because it was 'a neat thing to do' ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 14:16:33 -0500 From: turbochris@ramworks.com (TurboChris) Subject: MR2 MKII TURBO: Cat removal Hello everyone. I used to be on the list...more than a year ago. I didn't have time to keep up with it then, but I'm finally back. I apologize if this has been beaten to death already: I have a 93T with an HKS stage 4 setup (turbo upgrade, intake, exhaust, VPC, 17psi). I recently obtained a second TWC (the large cat under the turbo). I want to core out one to see what performance benefits may be gained. I vaguely remember reading, more than a year ago, that someone was able to remove one of their cats and still pass California emissions. Anyone remember that? I'd like to know if it's true, and if so, which model MR2 it was and which cat was removed. I have to get smog tested this month (Jax, FL). I'm tempted to put the cored one on and see what happens. If it passes, I'd like to replace the other cat with a high-flow unit. Christopher Long TurboChris@ramworks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 20:21:49 +0100 From: "Thomas Funder" Subject: Re: MR2 Black listing All this talk about Black List, got me thinking.... Why don't we just make a list of people that have proven to be honest, I personally know quite a few ;-) in order to submit someone to the list you have to be on it yourself. Ok ok ok, "What about the first" I know, you figure that out! I've done the initial thinking :D Regards Thomas '88 MKI NA Sunburst Red ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #72