mr2-digest Tuesday, January 6 1998 Volume 02 : Number 067 Re: MR2 MKI NA top speed. Re: MR2 MKI: Top Speed, stop :-) Re: MR2 - 'organized' speeding Re: MR2 MKI: Top Speed, stop :-) Re: MR2 MKII Power antenna problem MR2: MKII NA Squeaking sound at idle Re: MR2 MKII-Carbon Fiber Dash kits Re: MR2 Dwell meter: what is it? MR2 Bosch Platinum report... MR2 MK1 Body repair MR2 Headers for a MKII NA? MR2 The FINAL word on MKI Top Speed (long) Re: MR2 The FINAL word on MKI Top Speed (long) MR2 Update Re: MR2 IMOC decals and a little venting MR2 Hanley... where are you MR2 autox in FL MR2 mk 1 top speed & points RE: MR2 MKII-Carbon Fiber Dash kits(possible g.p.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:39:05 EST From: FZZR Subject: Re: MR2 MKI NA top speed. In a message dated 98-01-05 22:36:54 EST, you write: << I dont have stock size tires, i have 15" rims and 205/50/15's. I have seen over 135 on the speedo and it was about 6000 or so, it was a couple weeks ago, but i remember that i had plenty more rpm's till the 7500 red line. I am on a mission now to set the top end speed in my mr2 this week. My mr2 is not stock. I will be going by the speedo. I might be able to get a trooper friends radar gun. With 15' wheels, that would mean that the car will go faster at the same rpm, and the speedo should be showing a slower than actual speed because of the larger circumfrance tire. Yes? >> Yes that is a true statement. But considering that 195/50/15's are the same diameter as the stock tire combo, I can't imagine 205/50/15's make the gearing off to far. I am going to have to look up the 205/50/15 overall diameter. ****************************************************** Chuck FZZR@AOL.COM 88 MR2 SC (150,000 miles) 89 Yamaha FZR 1000 (40,000 miles) ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:38:14 -0500 From: Steve Bagdon Subject: Re: MR2 MKI: Top Speed, stop :-) TerrySaltzman@home.com wrote: > > > OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, The INDICATED speed on MY mr2 must NOT be > >accurate. > > Lets all just take a deep breath and slowly exhale,,,,, there, now i will have > > it tested with a radar gun, then maybe whatever the results, i will not have > > to read so much flame mail because the results will be accurate, 'course then > > ill probably recieve some mail on how the radar gun i used doesnt work. :-) > > Mike Craig > > 86 MR2 <--- with "unsure" speedometer indication. :-) > > > > actually your speedo is probably more accurate C'mon, how can you say that? A speedo measures speed via counting of turns on the tranny - so any variation of tire diameter (manufacturing differences, tire wear removing tread and making the tire smaller, etc) will effect indicated speed. RADAR uses radio freqs (which travels at the speed of light, right?), and the Doppler effect will give a *much* more accurate speed measurement. Now, the accuracy of the *operator* of a RADAR gun is much more suspect then the accuracy of the RADAR gun itself. The mathematics I'm sure will be discussed by someone else, but RADAR will be very accurate displaying the speed of the object with the greatest signal return. > bustin da hump on the ole back of law- Don't let getting a ticket effect the laws of physics. :) Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:38:13 -0500 From: Steve Bagdon Subject: Re: MR2 - 'organized' speeding > Yeah a plan! Alright! I didn't think other people would be that into it. I > always fantasized about doing that sort of thing(sick I know) I'm really > looking forward to moving down to San Diego now! Please post how the scanner > is working! BTW how often they use radar down there? I haven't gotten a ticket > for awhile now(6 months) but then again I've been going at it kinda slow cuz I > really can't afford any more..I'm thinking about getting a valentine 1, and of > course a scanner if indeed it is helpful. Wow that banzai club sounded totally > awesome I must admit tho..if we knew anyone with a helicopter and could afford > it..and if my car could go a little faster..or alot faster.. In Florida, there were a few stretches that *begged* for this. On the Florida Turnpike, there is one stretch that is 52 miles between exits (and I believe there's a rest-stop somewhere in the middle). 27 miles of road, with no exits, no turns, nothing. Whets the pallet. :) Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:38:17 -0500 From: Steve Bagdon Subject: Re: MR2 MKI: Top Speed, stop :-) Sport Ridr wrote: > > OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, OK, The INDICATED speed on MY mr2 must NOT be accurate. > Lets all just take a deep breath and slowly exhale,,,,, there, now i will have > it tested with a radar gun, then maybe whatever the results, i will not have > to read so much flame mail because the results will be accurate, 'course then > ill probably recieve some mail on how the radar gun i used doesnt work. :-) > Mike Craig > 86 MR2 <--- with "unsure" speedometer indication. :-) End an e-mail message to the digest with 'and I'll take it up to 145mph and take a picture of the speedo to show you that I'm right', and what kind of response did you expect to get? As per the radar gun, just be sure to get the tuning fork with it, calibrate it before your run, and do at least 2 passes in each direction. Or, if you really want to know, get the gear ratios from Matti's page, measure the outside diameter of your tires, do the math, and you'll have your answer - and that's a lot easier on your engine, and a lot more legal. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:38:13 -0500 From: Steve Bagdon Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Power antenna problem Mr2toy726 wrote: > > The mast is fine and the motor works, but the "cord" inside my power antenna > is broken. Is there a mast and cord kit available to fix it for a reasonable > price? Yes. Go to Toyota, and be sure to ask for either the wing or non-wing antenna version. Figure about $45, the instructions are on mr2.com Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:14:32 EST From: Keith6566 Subject: MR2: MKII NA Squeaking sound at idle My car started making a noise this morning. It squealed at startup pretty bad which someone on this list had previously said indicated a bad AC idler pulley. It then continued to make a noise like a bad bearing in one of the pulleys at idle, but the sound goes away once the revs go up. Before I get a new AC idler pulley is there anything else I should check for? Keith ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:19:24 -0500 (EST) From: Inaam AlHashimi Subject: Re: MR2 MKII-Carbon Fiber Dash kits Jeff Bihn of Rebel Mtorsports fame would probably know. He sells them. Sincerely, Chris L. & Aiman A. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 07:33:04 -0800 From: Kurt Krueger Subject: Re: MR2 Dwell meter: what is it? Byron wrote: > >... dwell measures the length of > time that the points are *closed* not open. During this time the coil > builds up energy and fires the plug when the points opened. This definition still applies to a least some electronic systems, since dwell is a measure of the relative amount of time that current flows to the coil. But a lot of the old dwell meters don't work because voltage and current levels are different. In fact, on my old Pickup, hooking up a dwell meter sucks up enough current to kill the ignition even though that model still uses points (hooked up to the infamous Toyota ignitor). ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 07:38:34 -0800 From: Kurt Krueger Subject: MR2 Bosch Platinum report... Several folks have asked about these. I put a set in an '89 MkI at about 90K miles. 46K miles later I pulled them and inspected. They still look good. The gaps had widened to about .047 (new gap is .044). They should make the reccomended 60K miles easily. BTW, I believe that the original NGK's were in the car at 90K. I know for sure that they had at least 70K miles on them. They were still running good but were looking long in the tooth. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 10:36 From: JBEREZA@adcnj.usa.com (John Bereza) Subject: MR2 MK1 Body repair Hello again, Well, the alt.stepchild has wrinkled my 2. RF fender and RR quarter. Spun into a guardrail after "avoiding a deer". I know the rear is welded but how does the front fender come off, is there more that the 4 or 5 bolts across the top, 1 or 2 behind door, and the stay at the bottom front? If it's easy, I'll go to a yard and get a fender. What color would go good with silver? : ) How can I get inside the back to whack it away from the tire, theres a big crease across the tangent to the top edge of the wheel arch. I haven't really looked around too much yet, (too depressed) besides, I have yet to see a bodywork thread on this list. Oh, no, something new. Thanks. John BTW #1, The kid will be transported from county to court Thu. for the theft charges I filed after he had the 2 for a week. BTW #2, A. Timothy Assam dissed me too. I sent him the rubber distributor cover last summer with the understanding he would send me a local t-shirt. He sent a thanks for the part to the digest and me but no shirt. Also someone named Jean Bradford in Ill. got a front emblem, seat belt end, lumbar lever and something or another else with the same understanding. No shirts, no reply. That was in July. Alas. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 10:38:31 EST From: Mr2toy726 Subject: MR2 Headers for a MKII NA? Is there a header available for the MKII NA cars? Where? How much? Anyone tried it? Thanks, Aaron 91 NA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 09:20:12 -0600 From: "John Welch" Subject: MR2 The FINAL word on MKI Top Speed (long) OK here goes.... I have done a TON of research on this... Here are the speeds in gears of a MKI with a stock manual trans, and modified Thease are NOT disscussable, they are NOT debatable... Thease are the FACTS. All testing has been done in a 1987 MKI MR-2 The car has been modified with a Turbo kit. 239 bhp @ 6800 rpms so any top speeds in this car will be FASTER than a stock, or midly modified MKI MR-2 You may be able to figure about 1-2% varation due to different air densitys, and altitude. However as drag is reduced by altitude, engine preformance is reduced also. Revoloution per mile information provided by Yokohama (this is actual info, not static measurments) Timing devices : Pi Research System IV+ Running software version System Pro V6.4 ( same thing Indy cars use ) Fedral Siginal Police edition Stalker 3.3 radar gun (calibrated 2 weeks eariler supplied by Kevin Burns of Federal Siginal In University Park Illinois. R&D lab) Sunday April 10th 1994 8:00 am 59 Degrees F. 82 % RH Yokohama A509 185/60/14 tires 913 revs per mile. Gear Ratio Final RPM Pi MPH Radar MPH 1st 3.166 4.3100 7500 36.1 37 2nd 1.904 7500 60.0 60 3rd 1.310 7500 87.3 88 4th 0.969 7500 118.0 119 5th 0.815 7500 140.3 139 Same car 44 mins later Yokohama A-022 H1's 205/50/15 896 revs per mile Gear Ratio Final RPM Pi MPH Radar MPH 1st 3.166 4.3100 7500 36.8 37 2nd 1.904 7500 61.2 62 3rd 1.310 7500 88.9 90 4th 0.969 7500 120.2 121 5th 0.815 7500 142.9 144 Same car 6 months later with gear changes.... Radar not available this time. Sunday September 4th 1994 8:45 am 53 degrees F 63 % RH Yokohama A-509 185/60/14 913 revs per mile Gear Ratio Final RPM Pi MPH 1st 3.545 3.7220 7500 37.4 2nd 1.904 7500 69.6 3rd 1.310 7500 101.1 4th 0.969 7500 136.7 5th 0.815 6810 147.5 couldn't pull past 6810 rpms Same car 1 hour later Yokohama A-022 H1's 205/50/15 896 revs per mile Gear Ratio Final RPM Pi MPH 1st 3.545 3.7220 7500 38.1 2nd 1.904 7500 70.9 3rd 1.310 7500 103.0 4th 0.969 7500 139.3 5th 0.815 6690 147.6 couldnt pull past 6690 rpms Same car 30 mins later.... outside rear view mirror's removed, wipers removed. With the hood, head lights, windows, T-Tops, front marker lights all taped over with racing tape.... All speeds from previous test same.... except Gear Ratio Final RPM Pi MPH 5th 0.815 3.7220 6895 152.1 couldn't pull past 6895 rpms. That's it. Period. Amen. End of Subject. If you THINK your car went faster then please feel free to bring it by, I'll hook up my equipment and then I will either: 1. Compliment you on some more serious modifications than mine. 2. Show you the error in your ways. Feel free to reverse compute thease numbers.... you'ed be amazed how accurate they are..... Most top speed runs are around 13-15 psi boost.... You want to talk about seeing a Turbo Glow ? Fuel economy.... 6.7 mpg..... during the Silver State Classic.... All FLAME's welcome.... squelch@ix.netcom.com John Welch Data Acqusition Geek Payton-Coyne CART team ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:14:57 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 The FINAL word on MKI Top Speed (long) Good Post John. I might want to talk to you about Data Acq stuff if you are willing. I am working on a new automotive project (secret for now) that involves data acquistion for motorsports. Anyways, wanted to echo something that John's post shows. The original poster mentions mods to go faster, but the MR2 is limited firstly by it's gearing (Xrpms thru the gears x rpms of the tires = Ymph). This is a given, but more importantly, cars at very high speeds become limited by the aerodynamics. I remember a graph I saw that showed the hp required to overcome air resistance above 140mph. The power becomes rediculous. It makes much more sense to look at the aerodynamics (taping seams, etc). Well, the MKI is at least a good shape. Imagine this thread on the Peterbuilt list. For me, I could care less how fast a car can eventually go. I know it's cool for a lot of folks, but I still get my kicks at cornering speeds. Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:14:38 EST From: Lsaccone Subject: MR2 Update OK, first of all, thank you to everyone who is responding... I can very much appreciate the income from selling this stuff... it's killing me that I'm still paying off the engine rebuild and I don't have the car... anyways, I have an update of things that are for sale. HKS FCD, Greddy Profec, Greddy Boost guage (black face) Aif/Fuel Ratio guage (electronic)(is there any other kind?) The exhaust is intact (greddy) but it's about 1yr old. I'll probably just give that away for the cost of shipping, or if you're in the long island area you can pick it up. I have a RAZO racing shift knob Anything that anyone else can think of?? Thanks, Larry S. (Still spitting up blood... but recovering I think!) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:20:11 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 IMOC decals and a little venting David Hawkins wrote: The web page will be > updated accordingly. http://www.twosrus.com/imoc.htm I can't open this. Anyone else having success at it? > Sorry to bring the mood down, but if you got some parts > from me and are as angry about this as I am, let Tim > hear from you. He's at tassam3rd@earthlink.net, or > at least he was before he quit returning my mail. This has come up on another list I am on. There was a web page created with "people we do not recommend trading with" on it. Yeah, this brings up all kind of issues re: disputes over a trade, defamation, etc. *RIP Sonny Bono* Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:21:06 EST From: Lsaccone Subject: MR2 Hanley... where are you Hanley Leung, I sent you a Greddy T.V.V.C. over 2 weeks ago... you have yet to send a check. I'm hoping that this is just an oversight. I would have replied directly, but I don't have your email address anymore. Thanks. Larry S ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 11:56:29 EST From: Ccrelan Subject: MR2 autox in FL I am currently spending the month in Palm Beach Gardens, FL and have a stock 93MK11 Turbo. I have never been auto crossing but would love to check it out while I am down here- or talk with any other MR2 owners down here. Drop a line if interseted. By the way- got my first ticket in back woods of SC on the way down- $400 ouch!! currently investigating the Valentine 1 radar detector?? any thoughts? Ccrelan@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:11:38 -0800 From: william brandt Subject: MR2 mk 1 top speed & points I've driven 2 Mk1's a total of 110K miles and based on my experience I don't see any way they could hit 140MPH. I can see 120-125 MPH - just look at where the tach is in 5th at 70 - think it could double it? That's even assuming you could get near redline in 5th... Byron - you may be right on dwell meters (measuring amt closed). i do remember with my "hot" '67 327 Camaro with the infamous GM points a dwell meter was indespensible. Don't even know what you'd do with a timing light these days - the timing is done by an ECU. Reminds me of 2 funny stories - my British MB mechanic friend was telling me of trying to adjust the timing the old way by turning the distributer (on an MB) - but the timing wouldn't change! The ECU would comphensate for the turning by resetting the timing to the "correct" value... Dwell - for those of you who don;t know what I'm talking about with the 'GM" points, GM had a patent on the point adjustment mechanisim - you simply opened a little sliding door on the distributer cap, inserted an allen wrench and turned clockwise/counterclockwise to get the desired gap (dwell). All while th4e car was idling. All other cars - and I mean all others - were a PITA because you adjusted the points by loosening a screw at the base and physically sliding the points closer or away from the distributer shaft. Refasten the cap and start engine and measure - do that about 10 times before you get the right gap & you see what i mean... Anyway I was driving my hot Camaro back to UVa in 1973 and in Chicago it started missing terribly. Got so bad that I'd have to rev it to 5000 just so it so it wouldn't die. I sputtered, and i mean sputtered, into the garage at City Chevrolet. Svc Mgr must have seen me coming because he said "You have "vacuun leaks" all over the place - we'll need it a few days." bend over & smile. Anyway even then i knew what an electronic miss felt like & asked him to put it on a scope. He said 'if you don't like my diagnosis you can go elsewhere" - I did - sputtered into a little old garage in a bad area of town - and the owner looked at it for a moment and said "it's the points" - those GM points somehow had lost the adjustment (defective)and for $6 in new points and $20 (and a 6 pack i threw in) Car was as good as new. And I haven't bought a Chevy since. Well, off to work. Bill ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 08:59:21 -0800 From: "BryanW" Subject: RE: MR2 MKII-Carbon Fiber Dash kits(possible g.p.) I have a torasport dashkit and i am really impressed with the workmanship, and it also looks really cool. I posted a while back about a possible group purchase on these but got no responses. So now here it is: are there any of you interested in doing a group purchase on the carbonfiber dash kits. I need 10 orders to get a really good deal. Regular price is something like $330 and it comes with a pieces to cover all the pieces of the dash, air vent rings and door switches. If you are interested let me know. Bryan bwelch@goplay.com bnawelch@castles.com bryan.welch@travis.af.mil "Mario" wrote on Tuesday January 6, 1998 at 6:27am: >Hi everybody: > Have any one taken a close look at Tora Sport >carbon Fiber dash kits for the 91-95 MR2 ? I saw it on a magazine so can't >determine its quality. Any one out there tried it ? > > Mario > mariomun@caribe.net > 1991 MR2 T, black, TT > 1991 Honda CBR 600 F2 > 1979 Triumph Spitfire (Rotary powered) > 1987 Mitsubishi 4x4 pickup( 5.0 Lts ) - ------------------------------------------------------ | Where do you want to get your Email today? | http://www.goplay.com/email/1000000 - it's FREE! ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #67