mr2-digest Monday, January 5 1998 Volume 02 : Number 060 Re: MR2 Engine for sale... and other things MR2 MK2 Add just for good laugh Re: MR2 MkII : Brake Pad Sizes, Differences? RE: MR2 - "Trunking" communications devices MR2 Re: mkii convertable Re: MR2 MK2 Add just for good laugh RE: MR2 MKII T clutch (or lack thereof) MR2 ECU Fuel Mod Idea RE: MR2 - MK1 Problems with Emmisions Re: MR2 MK2 Add just for good laugh...Toy Store? Re: MR2 MKII Max Speed and Max Cruising Speed Re: MR2 TOP SPEED (autobahn,highway) Re: MR2 MK2 Add just for good laugh Re: MR2 - MK1 Problems with Emmisions Re: MR2 TOP SPEED (autobahn,highway) Re: MR2 MKII Body Kit?? Re: MR2 Re: mkii convertable MR2 MRS. 2 RE: MR2 ECU Fuel Mod Idea ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:21:49 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 Engine for sale... and other things I wonder about the proportion of MR2 drivers on this list that total their cars. Not a flame, but is the proportion higher? Is this related to the high insurance thread? Is this related to the top-speed thread-swars? Is it a Chrysler thread-swar? What is the top speed of a thread-swar? 8) Or are people who might tend to drive recklessly (not that anyone on this list has driven recklessly) attracted to the list, as in they are car nuts? Or does the list contribute to high speed driving? NO answers...just questions. The good news is that front end collisions with the MR2 means the engine may be fine. Be safe Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:19:23 -0600 From: "Chris King" Subject: MR2 MK2 Add just for good laugh Saw this ad tonight and couldn't help but post it. Made me laugh... 1991, TOYOTA, MR2, $5995, Stock# 881659, transmission: Automatic, Color: graphite grey, Interior: grey cloth, 6 cyl, every option available,, (513)-874-3333 For those that miss the humor, 91's in grey were only available in Turbo models -- Turbo models were only available with manual transmission and 4cylinder engines. Also, you would think leather would qualify as an option but apparently not because as the ad says "every option available." Sheesh, if it wasn't a long distance call, I would ask the dealer about it just to here what else he would say about it. And yes, this is for sale by a dealer. Chris K. 91 NA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:25:24 EST From: MR2Turbo91 Subject: Re: MR2 MkII : Brake Pad Sizes, Differences? In a message dated 98-01-01 19:26:17 EST, you write: << I'm trying to figure out if some joker put the wrong pads into the right box -- or this is a problem w/ TRD/PF parts. Thanks. - Jeffrey >> Jeffrey... when looking through the TRD catalog, they only mention the NA MR2s... at least that's what I copied down to my website listing TRD parts.... to my knowledge, TRD doesn't have a pad for the Turbos... Austin T ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 22:53:46 -0800 From: Steve N Subject: RE: MR2 - "Trunking" communications devices > sooo...how do i know or find out if my local "servants of the public" > (cops) use this trunking method? Well, ther are a couple of ways, and it depends on how sneaky you are. The easiest is as follows: http://www.trunktracker.com/ It has a decent database of trunking systems A real good place to start to learn about scanners and overall scanner info: http://www.qsl.net/n2mca/RADIO.HTM Another trunking database: http://www.bearcat1.com/fleet.htm There is one more trunking database, but for the life of me, I can't find it! It was the best one too, oh well mabye it has disappeared. Also you can be sneaky like a hacker and try and get some frequiences by being someone you're not! The frequinecies to the radios are usually printed on the radios themselves. So the next time you're in jail, ask the cop to get you paper and pen, and if you can borrow his radio. ;) I know this really isn't Mr2 related, but it is speed related, in that you don't want to get caught doing it! And that is something I like to do in my Mr2, speeding that is, not getting caught. If used right, a scanner can be a very valuable tool in staying away from the cops, and from behind bars! Steve N. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 22:59:16 -0800 From: Steve N Subject: MR2 Re: mkii convertable > whats the "deal" with these? >From what I remember, it was just a "one off", and the manufacturer was either Yokohama, (yes the tire guys) or another company, I am not too sure. Steve N. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:06:15 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wootten Subject: Re: MR2 MK2 Add just for good laugh I just bought my MR2 about 2 months ago, and looked at a 91 grey NA. I was also under the impression that grey was available for turbos only before that as well. I also looked at a red automatic turbo that was either a 91 or 92, not sure which anymore. I think that the spectrum of options were very high for MR2's. On the other hand I also saw an add at the "Toy Store" here in san jose, that claimed that they had a 6cyl MR2, and of course it wasn't. But they did offer to make the conversion for me. rick 92T On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Chris King wrote: > Saw this ad tonight and couldn't help but post it. Made me laugh... > > 1991, TOYOTA, MR2, $5995, Stock# 881659, > transmission: Automatic, Color: graphite grey, > Interior: grey cloth, 6 cyl, every option available,, > (513)-874-3333 > > For those that miss the humor, 91's in grey were only available in Turbo > models -- Turbo models were only available with manual transmission and > 4cylinder engines. Also, you would think leather would qualify as an > option but apparently not because as the ad says "every option available." > Sheesh, if it wasn't a long distance call, I would ask the dealer about it > just to here what else he would say about it. And yes, this is for sale by > a dealer. > > Chris K. > 91 NA > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:10:16 -0600 From: Andrew Adams Subject: RE: MR2 MKII T clutch (or lack thereof) Matt, I had the same thing happen in my 93T a month ago with 53Kmi on the clock. Started with the thunk, ended with a pedal that would not come off the floor, or would haveto be lifted from the floor. Dealer replaced slave cylinder, then the master cylinder. It took them two weeks to get the slave cyl, so they said. I bought the warranty, so it was all free. After replacing the slave, evidently this didn't fix it and they miraculously came up with a master, which did fix the problem. Then they forgot to tighten the fittings and all the fluid ran out, immobilizing me. $%! Andrew Andrew Adams acadams@weston.com The Weston Group acadams@swbell.net www.andrewadams.com On Saturday, January 03, 1998 10:55 PM, Matt Gawlowski [SMTP:whitemr2@worldnet.att.net] wrote: > Yes, after a very long abscence, I have rejoined the mr2 digest > community! Unfortunately, it is tragedy which has brought me back, > though not with my MR2, but a friend's. We'll be working on it first > thing tomorrow morning, and she REALLY needs the car working ASAP if at > all possible, hence the use of the 'announce'...sorry! > > The car: '93 Turbo, 60k miles > > The problem: NO CLUTCH. Engagement point so low to floor as to be > questionable - may not even BE an engagement point anymore. Pumping the > pedal has no effect, and there's very little pedal resistance. > > Preceeding events: Weeks ago, a 'thunk' was felt as clutch pedal > depressed. Since then, the engagement point has become lower and lower > in the pedal travel...accompanied by a softer thunk usually. Now, > nothing. In the past few weeks, the car has seemed to be harder to get > into gear, but that probably means nothing (IMO). She drove the car to > her place tonight w/o a clutch; managed to get the car into THIRD gear, > and reported lots of smoke as the engine lugged around virtually zero > rpm. Yes, I know, I know, but don't yell at me, this wasn't *MY* idea, > I didn't know about it until she called me when she got home! > > I DO own the factory service manuals, but they aren't too enlightening > w.r.t. this problem. > > Possibilities: Pedal linkage???? Master cylinder (but how do you > explain the thunk?)??? Slave cylinder (not likely)??? Other ideas? > > My plan: inspect linkage and adjustment mechanisms. Test output of > master cylinder. Pray that someone on the digest has gone through this > already...! > > Please, any comments? > > > Thanks in advance, > > - Matt G., '91 White NA, whitemr2@worldnet.att.net > http://www.geocities.com/~gawlowski ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:32:58 EST From: Daucott Subject: MR2 ECU Fuel Mod Idea An offline conversation sparked an idea. One of the ways of getting the ECU to enrichen the fuel is to fool it with the temp sensor. Now, I dynoed this and it proved to be good for the low end but bad for high end due to either too much fuel up high or a computer program compensating for the "cold" engine. This got me to thinking, if we had a small programmable computer we could put in the optimum resistance values for say every 400 rpm all the way to redline. Allow the stock temp sensor to to work from cold to operating temperature (for the MR2 around 95C) and then have the add on computer take over. This seems too easy... could it be nobody has thought of it? Superchips, are you listening? You already have an ICON for the Toyota cars that controls the ignition curves. Anyway, do we have anyone on the list that has the expertise to create this little device? A simple signal feed from the coil for rpm and a two wire feed to the temp sensor, a temperature based switch to toggle the control, and a lookup table for the resistance values. (patent pending) A simple home brew method would be a $50 Summit rpm based switch that turns your resistor of choice off at 4000-4500 rpm. This would boost low end but not punish the high end. Hmmm... I may have to try this. Dave A. daucott@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:34:05 -0500 From: Chris Conlon Subject: RE: MR2 - MK1 Problems with Emmisions > >----Original Message----- > >>Hey Guyz, I'm trying to post this from work (I'm hoping it will work). > >>I've got an '87 NA, I'm in Richmond BC (Canada). Well, I just failed > >>AirCare, Big time... I scored a 1150 ppm on the HydroCarbons, max of 300. > >>Anyhow, I'm guessing O2 Sensor... HC's have nothing to do with the Cat, Did your test have results for carbon monoxide/CO and nitrogen oxides? It would really help to make a diagnosis, if available. That HC result is pretty high, most likely your engine is missing occasionally (at least). This is especially likely if CO and NO readings are low or passing. If so check your ignition system, from coil to spark plugs, R&R as needed. The O2 sensor, by itself, does not sound like the problem. If it were so bad that your engine ran that rich, you'd expect trouble codes, lousy power and high CO levels as well. Not to say the O2 sensor is definitely good, just that I don't think it's the (sole?) cause of such high HC readings. If you have more info on the problem, do post it... Most likely someone will be able to make better suggestions. Chris C. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:37:58 EST From: Ltraviolnc Subject: Re: MR2 MK2 Add just for good laugh...Toy Store? In a message dated 98-01-05 00:16:08 EST, lars@gdfx.com writes: > On the other hand I also saw an add at the "Toy > Store" here in san jose, that claimed that they had a 6cyl MR2, and of > course it wasn't. But they did offer to make the conversion for me. Curious, anyone know if this is the same "Toy Store" that was around in the late sixties/early seventies? I have some old magazines that have ads for them. I think the one I remember seeing it in was dated '72. They did performance work and customizing on Toyotas. The ad did have a CA phone number (I tried it a few years ago when I first found the ad, but it was disconnected). I've also, more recently, heard of a Toy Store in Jersey doing performance Toyotas, but don't know if there is a connection. Just wonderin' Ron 87/\/\R2 Ltraviolnc@aol.com ICQ '98: 3087083 ps: I'd like to hear the details of this 6cyl conversion! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:47:03 EST From: MR2Turbo91 Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Max Speed and Max Cruising Speed In a message dated 98-01-04 19:47:52 EST, TerrySaltzman@home.com writes: << i think that this would be VERY awesome if multipule mr2s were entered. very cool. planning away- terry >> Terry, you know I am going to be there... Hey, I plan on winning my entrance fees back at the roulette table Austin T ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:42:46 EST From: Keith6566 Subject: Re: MR2 TOP SPEED (autobahn,highway) The states highway funds are no longer tied to speed enforcement. This was changed last fall? I believe. As a result states can choose their own speed limits and enforce them with whatever force they deem necessary. Montana has chosen a "Safe and Prudent" daytime speed limit law which basically leaves the speed limit up to the officer. One of the big car magazines (I'll look for the article) did an interview with a sheriff in Montana and he said they definitely take the type of car into consideration when ticketing. Something like a brand new Porsche at 100 mph would probably not raise his eyebrows but a wreck of a car at 90 would. Keith ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:49:13 -0600 From: "Chris King" Subject: Re: MR2 MK2 Add just for good laugh > I just bought my MR2 about 2 months ago, and looked at a 91 grey NA. I am pretty sure that the steel mist grey was only on the Turbo models for 91-92; you could then get the NA's in steel mist in 93. That's not to say that someone couldn't have a paint job done on one though > that as well. I also looked at a red automatic turbo that was either a 91 > or 92, not sure which anymore. I think that the spectrum of options were > very high for MR2's. This one I am absolutely positive about. There was never an automatic for the MKii. There was an auto for the older supercharged but the only to have an automatic turbo would be to add it yourself. Terry, wasn't it you asking about the "rareness" to your 92 steel mist greay turbo? Can you shed some light on this for us or anyone else with the brochure? Chris K. 91 NA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 00:52:25 EST From: Ltraviolnc Subject: Re: MR2 - MK1 Problems with Emmisions In a message dated 98-01-05 00:40:56 EST, synchris@ricochet.net writes: > > >----Original Message----- > > >>Hey Guyz, I'm trying to post this from work (I'm hoping it will work). > > >>I've got an '87 NA, I'm in Richmond BC (Canada). Well, I just failed > > >>AirCare, Big time... I scored a 1150 ppm on the HydroCarbons, max of 300. > > > >>Anyhow, I'm guessing O2 Sensor... HC's have nothing to do with the Cat, > > Did your test have results for carbon monoxide/CO and nitrogen oxides? It > would > really help to make a diagnosis, if available. > > That HC result is pretty high, most likely your engine is missing > occasionally > (at least). This is especially likely if CO and NO readings are low or > passing. > If so check your ignition system, from coil to spark plugs, R&R as needed. > > The O2 sensor, by itself, does not sound like the problem. If it were so bad > that your engine ran that rich, you'd expect trouble codes, lousy power and > high CO levels as well. Not to say the O2 sensor is definitely good, just > that I don't think it's the (sole?) cause of such high HC readings. > > If you have more info on the problem, do post it... Most likely someone will > be able to make better suggestions. > > Chris C. Yeah, I agree....there is no way you should have hydrocarbon levels that high without something electronic really out of whack (code should set "check engine"), real bad state of tune, or an internal engine problem. I ran my car with no converter for three years and never had a HC reading of more than 105ppm with a hot ignition. Does your car use oil? Any blue smoke? Check your plugs for oil fouling. You may have a broken ring or bad valve seal. Ron 87/\/\R2 Ltraviolnc@aol,com ICQ '98: 3087083 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:52:25 -0600 From: "Chris King" Subject: Re: MR2 TOP SPEED (autobahn,highway) > speed limit up to the officer. One of the big car magazines (I'll look for > the article) did an interview with a sheriff in Montana and he said they > definitely take the type of car into consideration when ticketing. Something > like a brand new Porsche at 100 mph would probably not raise his eyebrows but > a wreck of a car at 90 would. That's quite interesting. I would imagine there are quite a few officers who would also do the opposite; ticket the guy in the Porshe and let the other guy go. Maybe those kind of officer's are just in Illinois though... Also, how do they define "prudent"? Say I get a ticket doing 80 in my mr. How would I fight it in a court when they just go by this? Chris K. 91 NA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 22:04:14 -0800 (PST) From: "Harry C. Wang" Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Body Kit?? The one on the orange car is a replica also. I'm not sure who exactly makes it but its from Carisma. On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, Charles Grosjean wrote: > "Ardell L. Simon" writes: > > >In this months issue of Turbo Mag there are 2 MR2's(ONE ORANGE!) with the > >same body kit on. The sides look like aeroware but the front is > >different?? Anyone know where that front end comes from?? > > The blue car (cito's) has a Bomex front end. Toysport has, ahem put that into > production. However, if you look at the web site, the picture on the yellow > car has been retouched to eliminate the opening in the center. Interestingly > enough, the day I was there talking to them about how it was sorta ugly to > have the hole, the guys who do the website were picking up the pictures =). > > Installation of that front end requires some trimming of the bumper supports, > apparently nothing too radical, but still something to consider. I think cost > was in the $400 range. I don't know who manufactured the one on the orange car. > > Charles > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 22:09:18 +0800 From: sirmike Subject: Re: MR2 Re: mkii convertable Steve N wrote: > > whats the "deal" with these? > > >From what I remember, it was just a "one off", and the manufacturer was > either Yokohama, (yes the tire guys) or another company, I am not too > sure. > > Steve N. It's on mr2.com as a TRD one from Japan. It's under the prototype cars section. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:21:34 -0800 From: "T. Guy" Subject: MR2 MRS. 2 >Subj: 89 supercharge MR-2$4500 >Date: 98-01-04 00:24:36 EST blue/blue, 79000 miles runs good, t-top power everything, in L.A, automatic It was sounding really good until I got to the last word....ewwwwww. Hey David, they call those Mrs. Twos ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:12:47 -0500 From: Chris Conlon Subject: RE: MR2 ECU Fuel Mod Idea Dave A. wrote: > An offline conversation sparked an idea. One of the ways of getting the ECU > to enrichen the fuel is to fool it with the temp sensor. Now, I dynoed this > and it proved to be good for the low end but bad for high end due to either > too much fuel up high or a computer program compensating for the "cold" > engine. This got me to thinking, if we had a small programmable computer we > could put in the optimum resistance values for say every 400 rpm all the way > to redline. Allow the stock temp sensor to to work from cold to operating > temperature (for the MR2 around 95C) and then have the add on computer take > over. This is pretty close to my current pet project, except that my first line of attack is in through the AFM. Remapping the air/fuel curve through there would be easy, but I wasn't planning to build that step, and it wouldn't allow the map to take RPM into account. The first step I *do* plan to build is what amounts to a MAP conversion system, replacing the AFM entirely, and allowing air/fuel remapping to take RPM into account. I *am* still looking for guinea pigs... OTOH the temperature sensor mod you describe is also very easy. Is this a call for volunteers to build it? ;) > This seems too easy... could it be nobody has thought of it? Superchips, are > you listening? You already have an ICON for the Toyota cars that controls the > ignition curves. I would have thought that nobody had done it because it wouldn't be worth much, HP-wise... but I also find it strange that the Superchips device controls ignition but not fuel, and I was also (pleasantly!) surprised at Jorn's Simco-chip results. (Thus showing what kind of guesser I am.) Probably there's a lot more to be gained than I had thought, which makes me glad. If anyone would like to collaborate on this type of project, let me know. Chris C. ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #60