mr2-digest Sunday, January 4 1998 Volume 02 : Number 059 Update: MR2 MKII T clutch (or lack thereof) re: MR2 MKII top speed RE: MR2 - "Trunking" communications devices MR2 Atlantic City Gathering Report Re: MR2 MKII-T 91/92 vs. 93 RE: MR2 - "Trunking" communications devices Re: MR2 O2sensor Re: MR2:MKI Top Speed Re: MR2 insurance rates Re: MR2 MKII Max Speed and Max Cruising Speed Fwd: MR2:MKI Top Speed Re: MR2 Tires for 91 NA Re: MR2 O2sensor MR2: New addition to my page MR2 Engine for sale... and other things RE: MR2 TOP SPEED (autobahn,highway) Re: MR2 NOS in MKII Turbos ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 17:20:02 -0800 From: Matt Gawlowski Subject: Update: MR2 MKII T clutch (or lack thereof) First of all, thanks to all who responded to my plea for help regarding the cluch on my friend's '93T. Quick summary: The clutch pedal support bracket has failed due to a combination of heavy clutch and a VERY loose master cylinder nut The original description of the problem was based on a phone conversation, here's MY desc of problem: clutch pedal heavy (owner says this is normal. I say it's a sign the clutch is getting old). Engagement point very very low, never fully engages (disengages?). Plenty of pedal pressure. Strange pedal FEEL...and on the return stroke, near the top, pedal will sometimes 'catch'; must use toe to 'pull' it back. A visual inspection turned up nothing. Decided to bleed the system - thinking that it might 'raise' the release point enough that the car may be more driveable, to get it to a mechanic. System produced plenty of pressure to bleed the system the old fashioned two-person way. While filling the MC (Master Cylinder) reservoir one time (I decided to flush the system, rather than merely bleed it...the fluid was very dark), I noticed something strange about one of the bolts. The MC is held in place by two bolts (studs, really) passing through the firewall. The bottommost nut (in front luggage compartment) was very loose, about a quarter inch from even TOUCHING the MC flange - that side of the MC flange was, in effect, free floating. Access to the top nut is from INSIDE the car, and it was tight. BUT...looking at the MC flange again, the firewall area around the topmost bolt has SHEARED OFF. Looking back inside, there's a large bracket that holds the actual clutch pedal - an elaborate formed sheetmetal piece. Where the topmost nut clamps down on this bracket, the bracket material has also sheared off. In effect, there is almost nothing holding the MC in place - the topmost bolt is more or less free to move (still a little material inside the car holding it in place, but...), and the lower one is not tight. Depressing the clutch caused the MC to move fwd about 6-8mm, explaining the lower clutch engagement point (in terms of pedal travel), as well as the strage pedal feel and the pedal 'catching' (the 'catching' was actually the master cylinder moving back into position). Tightening the lower nut made the system more secure but is definitely no solution. Repair: the bracket COULD possibly be welded to fix it, but I recommended that she buy a new one, turns out they're only about $80. Part of the reason the firewall sheared is that there are steel bushings (spacers. Look just like drill bushings, if you know what those are), about 10mm long, through which pass the two MC studs. So why'd it fail? Well, only one bolt was tightened, so the firewall and bracket in that area had to, in effect, support the system entirely, carrying twice the stress it was designed for. Combine that with a very heavy clutch pedal (old clutch, 60k miles), and it was too much, something had to give (the whole firewall flexes slightly when the pedal is depressed!). Instead of a large flat surface contacting the firewall and distributing the stress, you have those damn bushings, with probably a 2mm wall thickness - lots of stress in a very small surface area. We're buying a new bracket, and to fix the firewall sit, will use large washers to distribute the stress around the sheared area. Recommended course of action for all MR2 owners: check the nuts holding the MC in place and tighten if loose! We're HOPING this is all the problem is. There IS the problem with the clutch disc itself - I think she managed to burn it up based on the smells she described and the things she did to it. Hopefully there'll still be some decent life left in it. Will advise when all is fixed and I've had a change to analyze that bracket further - I think I may be wrong about the bushings/contact area as being the whole problem - the bracket itself should have prevented movement in that direction....? - -Matt G., '91 White NA, whitemr2@worldnet.att.net http://www.geocities.com/~gawlowski ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:40:29 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: re: MR2 MKII top speed Someone asked... "Does somebody know how fast the n/a US MR2 is(MKII)?" I remember the car mags quoted 123 MPH as the top speed (this was before the rev limiter cuts in), and the fastest I've had mine running has been 115 -- That was fast enough! - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 17:32:12 -0800 From: Matt Gawlowski Subject: RE: MR2 - "Trunking" communications devices > One final detail - I find a CB radio a *lot* more useful than a scanner, > at least on truck-travelled highways. Try to get a scanner that also > covers the CB bands - you probably won't find one easily, but it's > worth checking. > Uniden Beartracker BCT-7, ~$225, with so called 'CHP alert' (NOT 100% effective) http://www.uniden.com/docs/product/prdetail.asp?prodcode=BCT-7&prodcat=7 > btw- they reccomend scanners for the silver state and nevada > challenge...set/ready.looking for ideas and spots to mount theis crap > in the car WITHOUT permanetly attaching it. wada-u-tink? > You can take the BCT-7, and wedge it in between the driver's seat and the center tunnel, so the display would face up - but of course not be too accessible while driving, especially in the SSC! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 20:52:23 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: MR2 Atlantic City Gathering Report No one knew whatever happened to Adrian Cole who was supposed to be there, but Chris Conrad (blue 1985 MKI), Aly Abulkheir (red 1985 MKI) along with his friend "Shulte" riding shotgun, and Roxanne and myself took advantage of possibly the best weather day we've seen in a long time! It was like a beautiful spring day, and here it is January! My T-tops and Aly's and Chris' sunroofs were off most of the day. We met in the inlet area of Atlantic City, killed some time talking about each others' cars and even swapping off cars for a short around the block trip. It was REAL good for me to get back into a MKI with my ol' Momo Monte Carlo steering wheel that Aly got from me. Man, I wish I could have afforded to keep my MKI!!! We drove around the block to Gardner's Basin, then got back in the cars and headed past all the casinos through Atlantic City, then Ventnor, Margate, and finally Longport where we eyeballed some pretty fantastic real estate complete with a Ferrari, Lotus, and an XJ8. We then headed back up into Ventnor where we spotted a pristine white MKII parked on the street (no owner in sight) and then another pristine late model MKI where we flagged the guy down. What a mistake! Even though he saw 3 MR2's, he acted like we were going to kill him! He was actually scared! People like that shouldn't be allowed to own MR2's I always say! Anyway, we went to eat at White House Subs, where we all enjoyed what were probably the best subs anyone of us had ever eaten. After the sandwiches, we parked at the Sands Hotel/Casino, and took a walk on the famous Boardwalk. Chris presented me with an assortment of Mattel Hot Wheels cars which included a white with purple accents MR2 MKII! We all had a relaxing, absolutely beautiful day. If you were thinking of joining us and didn't, you really missed a super time on a simply perfect day! I took photos, and I will put them send them to Chris who will post them on his new MR2 page. I'd like to thank everyone who showed up today. Chris, thanks again for the Hot Wheels (there's gotta be something weird about a 44-year-old who accepts toys from a teenager, isn't there?), and Aly, thank you for driving so far. I'm glad you had a friend to make that long trip with! - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:08:42 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 MKII-T 91/92 vs. 93 >Take another look Steve, I was at 172hp, 171 torque and you were at 159hp, 166 > >I'm not trying to start an argument, and maybe "kick the crap out of" was a Oh, whatever. Can we discuss this when it's Spring? :) Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:09:42 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: RE: MR2 - "Trunking" communications devices >sooo...how do i know or find out if my local "servants of the public" >(cops) use this trunking method? it was suggested that i go to a >newsgroup ( rec.radio.scanner.) i honestly dont know or have the time >to do this (i used to have "freeagent" but could never find anything >so i dumped it) so i will exhaust the list first (my apologies) and >seeing as others on the list seem to benifitfrom this dialogue i see >it as relevant. i will be picking up one today (most likely) and all >will be told. The one time I actually looked into this, the police department was using a non-standard supervisory channel (to limit tracking), and was probably going to go to digital (encrypted not really necessary). Also, more police departments are using cellular, but then again tracking amps cellular is a joke (nothing an Oki 900 and some custom software won't fix). PCS with GMS-type encryption is NSA type stuff. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:09:53 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 O2sensor >I went to toyota for an o2 sensor and they wanted $135 bucks. >So i went across the street to a parts store and got the same thing for $29.00 >bucks. It would be intersting to see if this one lasts 12 years also... Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:10:32 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2:MKI Top Speed >I have had my MKI na to 137mph @ 5,700rpm's on the interstate numerous times, >and the rpm's are still climbing, (on 87 octane) but i allways seem to run out >of room quickly, its all those durn yankee's coming down here for our 75 >degree weather. :-) You have major out-of-spec tires or a badly calipbrated speedo. Top-speed for the Mk I is 124mph (or 200kph). 5000 rpm on m y C-52 tranny with 195/60-154 (so I'm a few percentage points off) tires is about 92mph. I seem to get about 14mph (or so) per 1000rpm. I have no idea where you're getting 45mph from 700rpm. Here it come again - the top-speed thread-swars... :) Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:10:49 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 insurance rates >> I really liked the free $120 though. That >> was truly a suprise! > >Unexpected may have been a better word....free >NEVER applies to insurance companies. > >USAA does the same thing every year. You get >a percentage of your payments back if it's been >a good year. I once read the name and forget what this type of insurance company is called, but it relates to whether the insurance company is 'investor owned' or 'insured owned'. Basically, they take in premiums, and if claims are lower then expected, then the overage is refunded back to the payers (after verifying that capital cash reserves are sufficient to accomadate any freak claim years). We got back $500+ from USAA this year (car, house, personal property). Steve b. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:21:26 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Max Speed and Max Cruising Speed >Since we're on the topic of top speed, Toyota's technical specifications >for the '93 MR2 shows both a max speed and a max cruising speed. Here >are Toyota's numbers: >Turbo: max speed - 149; max cruising speed - 137 >NA manual: max speed - 124; max cruising speed - 115 For those who care, 124mph should be around 200kph. That's supposed to be some magic number with car sales in Europe ('if the car can't do 200kph, it won't sell', or something like that). Watching an hour-long show on TLC about trains, they were talking about the TGV (Tres Grande Vite?). They kept throwing out the number 186mph. They just failed to mention 300kph for the metric-challenged. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:34:42 EST From: FZZR Subject: Fwd: MR2:MKI Top Speed This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_883967683_boundary Content-ID: <0_883967683@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-01-04 21:33:54 EST, FZZR writes: << << I have had my MKI na to 137mph @ 5,700rpm's on the interstate numerous times, and the rpm's are still climbing, (on 87 octane) but i allways seem to run out of room quickly, its all those durn yankee's coming down here for our 75 degree weather. :-) >> Your speedometer must be really out of wack. I highly highly doubt you ran 137MPH at 5700RPM in a MK1. I know in a MR2 SC 135MPH is at 6817.5 RPM (calculated this out). I can't imagine the N/A has more relaxed gearing. Many speedometers are really off once you pass 100MPH. I remember one time a Lamborghini (in a mag) was running 185MPH and the speedometer said 205MPH. ****************************************************** Chuck FZZR@AOL.COM 88 MR2 SC (150,000 miles) 89 Yamaha FZR 1000 (40,000 miles) ******************************************************** - --part0_883967683_boundary Content-ID: <0_883967683@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FZZR Return-path: To: SportRidr@aol.com Subject: Re: MR2:MKI Top Speed Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:33:54 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-01-04 15:16:21 EST, you write: << I have had my MKI na to 137mph @ 5,700rpm's on the interstate numerous times, and the rpm's are still climbing, (on 87 octane) but i allways seem to run out of room quickly, its all those durn yankee's coming down here for our 75 degree weather. :-) >> Your speedometer must be really out of wack. I highly highly doubt you ran 137MPH at 5700RPM in a MK1. I know in a MR2 SC 135MPH is at 6817.5RPM (calculated this out). I can't imagine the N/A has more relaxed gearing. Many speedometers are really off once you pass 100MPH. I remember one time a Lamborghini (in a mag) was running 185MPH and the speedometer said 205MPH. ****************************************************** Chuck FZZR@AOL.COM 88 MR2 SC (150,000 miles) 89 Yamaha FZR 1000 (40,000 miles) ******************************************************** - --part0_883967683_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:23:06 EST From: FZZR Subject: Re: MR2 Tires for 91 NA In a message dated 98-01-04 13:02:13 EST, you write: << Dunlop D40's...what do they typically cost? >> Check the tirerack they have the best prices. I paid $70 a piece for my 195/50 zr15 tires. ****************************************************** Chuck FZZR@AOL.COM 88 MR2 SC (150,000 miles) 89 Yamaha FZR 1000 (40,000 miles) ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:19:41 -0600 From: "Steve Hoult" Subject: Re: MR2 O2sensor SportRidr@aol.com wrote: >>I went to toyota for an o2 sensor and they wanted $135 bucks. >>So i went across the street to a parts store and got the same thing for $29.00 >>bucks. Steve B. replied : >It would be intersting to see if this one lasts 12 years also... Besides the fact that the $29 unit is a one wire unit and does not have the preheater it should be fine for several years. If you live in a smog test world make sure you run your car hard before smog testing. You have to make sure the O2 sensor is warm enough to send the right signals so that the ECU trims out the idle circuits for low emissions. You can compensate for the lack of the preheater by moving the sensor closer to the engine on the header, but then you're into one branch of the header, rather then in the collector area. This means that the O2 sensor only knows what one cylinder is doing. It could be the only cylinder burning right or it might be the only one wrong. Best bet is the $135 dollar Toyota O2 sensor. Try calling some of the larger dealers out west like Cabe or Lou Fus (sp?) Steve Hoult '89 SC ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:04:48 EST From: Luvmr2 Subject: MR2: New addition to my page Just wanted to let everyone know, that I added a classifieds section my web page. You can't place ads, it is just for me to try to hlp others locate a mr2. I am just going to post on the page all the mr2 ads that i find in my local paper or area. Please let me know what you think. Please take a second to check out the page and sign the guestbook. Thanks. The site is: http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/6819/njimoc.html Chris Conrad 1985 NA ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 22:24:23 EST From: Lsaccone Subject: MR2 Engine for sale... and other things Well, On New Year's Day I finally added myself to the list of holiday statistics... I totaled my car... and tried to total myself... a few hundred stitches later I'm ok, but I can't say the same for the car. I had a head on collision, but I had less than 2000 miles on the rebuilt engine. If anyone's interested in the engine, ECU, or 2 rear rims, let me know I'll be happy to part with them... and the memories!! Oh well, I'm outta here. Later, Larry S 1991 MR2 Turbo (What's left of it) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 21:53:39 -0800 From: Steve N Subject: RE: MR2 TOP SPEED (autobahn,highway) > People with a Turbo told me that they go esaliy up to 240-250km/h(150-156mph) > and more, but you shouldn't do that over a long period of time. You'll kill > your engine. Can the Turbo really not sustain high speed crusing for long periods of time? I do understand that you are putting a great load on the engine for a while while at the same time building up heat, but it seems that the systems could handle it. For anyone who knows the difference between German and US models of any type of car, what significant changes did they make to the car to make it more capable of high speed crusing? Steve N. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 23:11:46 -0500 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: MR2 NOS in MKII Turbos At 11:43 AM 1/4/98 -0800, Martin wrote: >What about NOS in MKII turbos? I haven't seen anything on the list about >this... What are the pros/cons? > >--Martin >91T Funny you should mention this, I just put a NOS Fogger nozzle on a customers MR2 MKII and jetted it for 50hp. Using the stock turbo etc and running at 16psi the car turned high 12's last weekend at the drag meet. Stephen Gunter,1990 Levin, icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the Toyota Mods WebRing ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #59