mr2-digest Saturday, January 3 1998 Volume 02 : Number 053 Re: MR2 MKII Noise reduction? Re: MR2: MKII Lots of questions about mods in CA. MR2 Turbo VSV Operation MR2 MKI winddeflector rattle MR2 Top Speed Re: MR2 MKII electrical failure MR2 MKII electrical failure Re: MR2 Exotic fuel for "The Beast" Re: MR2 Exotic fuel for "The Beast" [Fwd: Re: IMOC (International MR2 Owner's Club)] Re: MR2 Top Speed MR2 RPM Page ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 12:15:02 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Noise reduction? DaddyCat1 wrote: > CAUTION: Every silver lining has its cloud and now we've got to figure out how > to eliminate the stereo/alternator whine we never noticed before... FWIW, I have had this on my new car when it came from the factory. The whine is pretty bad, but normally I turned the music up and didn't notice it (not many quiet passages in my music 8). But it does bug me. I too would appreciate any fixes. btw...saw Titanic yesterday. Great movie but no MR2 was seen on the liner. Cliff, I also have been hit by those errant islands. 8) Randy Chase *being El Ninoed again* '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 12:36:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Harry C. Wang" Subject: Re: MR2: MKII Lots of questions about mods in CA. On Sat, 3 Jan 1998, Rick Wootten wrote: > > I have a couple of question and comments about upgrading my 92T. After > talking to several list members, I am going with 16 inch rims. It was > several peoples opinions that I might be dissatisfied with the relatively > small loss of power that I will experience with the larger/wider tire > configuration. This basically makes sense, more rubber in contact, equals > more friction. So, I have begun looking into different mods. I have 54k > miles on my 2 and will likely have the turbo rebuilt after 65-70k, which > is not all that long. I have heard that I can have the turbo modified to > give me more power. > > So what do they do? Change the angles on the impeller? Increase the > capacity of the housing? I believe the compressor side is often bored out to accomadate a larger compressor wheel. > > I have also notice that many of the list members have blow off valves and > turbo times. > > I pretty much understand a BOV as acting as a pressure regulator for the > turbo, releasing pressure above a certain psi, and storing some psi when it > is too low. Is this correct? Can someone quantify how this will help the > performance of my car. Will just adding a BOV increase my hp, or will > I have to boost the turbo psi and change the stock fuel cut off? Is this > something one can install himself without cutting into the exhaust or > turbo housing? The BOV isn't actually a pressure regulator. It's more of a one-way valve. When you let up on the throttle the built up boost pressure has no where to go except back towards the turbo. The BOV vents off this pressure. Without it the boost pressure would go back down to the turbo and slow down the compressor and possibly damaging it. A high-performance BOV does this more efficiently and even at a higher boost setting. It helps the most between shifts, so you don't lose too much boost. > > I have no clear idea what a turbo timer is. Help? the turbo timer keeps the engine on for a set amount of time after you pull the key out. This is the first mod i got and it's mainly a matter of convenience and accuracy so you don't have to sit in the car and keep it running to cool down the turbo. This way you can walk away from the car while it is running and cooling down the turbo and it will shut itself off. > > I understand that the intercooler, cools that air that is pumped out of > the turbo, before it enters that intake. Is this correct and is it a worth > while mod? Yes this is correct and it's definitely a mod worth doing after you start turning up the boost. > > I have the perception that I would be content (not forever) with around > 250 - 275 hp with the new tires and rims. That would be enough to make up > for the difference and then a little more. I know that more hp is just as > addictive as any other drug. > > Will a fuel rail mod be in order for 250 - 275 hp? If not at what point is > it? Will I need to get a stronger fuel pump for this hp? Can the stock one > be adjusted up? I'm not sure about this but it would be a good idea. I don't think a strongre fuel pump is needed though. > > Are after market ignition parts (wires, ect) a good idea for this hp range? Yeah, i think so. Anything to help fire that spark. > > I have the common gurgling noise from the turbo, if I don't let it cool > long enough. What can I do to alleviate this. My wife will not sit long > enough for the car to cool, when she is driving. Someone on the list > mentioned that they had their car rigged to run for a period of time after > they set the alarm. Could you share what it is that you did? Does Wetter > than Water help? Is there a temperature sensor that I can install to > monitor when it is cool enough to shut off? See above: turbo timer. The gurgling noise is the coolant and it's normal. Water wetter does help. Hope this helps. Harry 92 Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:39:49 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: MR2 Turbo VSV Operation I just installed an LED (next to my A-pillar mounted boost gauge) to monitor operation of the turbo VSV valve. I spliced it into the wire from the ECU to the VSV. It was my understanding that 12v was normally applied to the VSV which opened it, allowing it to bleed off some wastegate actuator pressure and thus allow full boost. But my LED indicates that it de-energizes any time I have positive manifold pressure. I'm still getting full boost, but the LED goes out as soon as pressure gets above zero and comes back on when boost drops below zero. Is my understanding of the VSV operation wrong? Maybe it is actually energized to limit boost, and if it senses something wrong like cold inlet air or detonation or something, then it wouldn't turn off at positive manifold pressure and it would limit my boost by remaining energized? Any of you boost heads out there know the answer? BTW, in case anyone is interested in doing this mod, I got the idea from http://alabanza.com/tsnet/ledmod/howto.htm. I spliced into the ECU to VSV wire (blue w/orange stripe), then soldered in a resistor and the LED in series, then grounded the other end of the LED to a bolt under the dash. I used a blue LED since (to me) a red light indicates a malfunction, and also because I have a blue interior. The VSV wires are in a very tight location under the intake manifold and working with them is difficult, so this project was more difficult than I anticipated. Brad Burns '91T, white, hardtop, 17K miles, '94 taillights, clear corners, no emblems, BBS PA wheels, Japanese accessory cupholder, HKS turbo timer, Alpine CD with upgraded speakers and bass tube, Ken Farrell leather shift boot, Tokicos, TRD front swaybar with '94 endlinks, A-pillar Autometer boost gauge and VSV LED (the car is pretty much stock, but all this stuff sounds impressive, huh?) '93NA, 7K miles, yellow hardtop ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 12:57:41 -0800 From: "86'MR2" Subject: MR2 MKI winddeflector rattle hihi~~ will anyone please kindly email me the instruction of how to cure the rattles from the wind deflector from the roof??? thanks and happy new year~~~ - -- 86'MR2 http://www.linkline.com/personal/hmtseng ICQ: 5666152 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:11:14 -0800 From: sguinn45@sprynet.com Subject: MR2 Top Speed Anybody done the calculations on what the theoretical top speed of a MKIIT is? Fifth gear, flat terrain, right at the rev limiter. Contemplating entering one of the Nevada Classics to see what will actually happen. I've done 130 and the car was still accelerating strongly. Just looking for a ballpark. The Classic is rated in classes up to Unlimited (over 180). I'm curious where I might fit. I think the car will make 140, maybe more. Steve '92 MR2T, 38,000 miles. HKS EVC, VPC, FCD, Exhaust, Air intake, turbo timer. Nology wires, mod dist cap. Will have turbo upgrade and larger Throttle Body by Classic time. Suggestions for other effective bolt-on's? I don't want to go inside the engine quite yet. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:42:43 -0600 From: "Andrew P. Tasi" Subject: Re: MR2 MKII electrical failure MR2 MKII electrical failure With challenges like this, always check your battery connections. Make sure they are clean and tight. If there is allot of "battery cheese" around the leads, use baking soda and water to wash it off. My Starion required this attention once a year, probably due to the aftermarket stereo and KC off-road lights under the bumper. Another possibility I've run into is an intermittent (hence-hard to diagnose) short in the alternator. Until I found out what it was, the old girl behaved like she was possessed. It would sometimes not start at all and I'd sometimes lose all electrical including my wired-right-to-the-dual-terminal-battery-bitten-stereo. Hope this helps, Andrew P. Tasi Black '88 MR2 T-top Silver '83 Mitsubishi Starion - -----Original Message----- From: bluemr2@juno.com To: mr2-interest@validgh.com Cc: joe@aaec.com Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 9:18 AM Subject: MR2 MKII electrical failure MR2 MKII electrical failure > I hate "me too" messages, but here it is :-) ME TOO! Once this >happened to me where the car started to crank and then sudden darkness. >The only thing that worked was the "door ajar" light (which went off when >I pushed on the brake pedal). Got a jump from a tow truck (refused jump >from a passerby 'cause I thought I might have a short somewhere) started >right up. HOWEVER, the voltmeter showed a wildly fluctuating voltage >when under 3k rpms during the drive home. No problems since. > hehe, now my dads Grand Am has developed a problem where it will >gradually start "losing" electrical devices while driving. The other >night, the clock and radio would not work, couple minutes later the >speedo went out, couple more minutes headlights went out, then the fog >lights, then the engine would no longer make enough power to accelerate, >then the power steering went as I was coasting into a gas station, then >the engine died. It started right back up though. > >Brian >'91 MR2 NA > >___________________________________________________ >On two occasions, I have hopped in the car, put the key into the >ignition, >turned, and .... blackness suddenly envelopes me. Complete electrical >shutdown. After that, no courtesy lights, no dash lights, no warning >chimes, no nothing. Everything is completely normal up until the instant >of the failure, and it is again completely normal after I get a jump from >a kind-hearted passerby. No amount of waiting, cursing, or asking the >car nicely will bring it back. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 21:49:28 GMT From: kasper@super.zippo.com (Kasper) Subject: Re: MR2 Exotic fuel for "The Beast" On Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:44:51 EST, you apparently wrote: >Hello Group, > Just a few thoughts on my comments on the fuel mix I am running. >After the destruction of my knock sensor, probably by detonation, it was >obvious that changes had to be made. I was going to end up with more $140 >knock sensor "dings" or burn something which would reduce detonation. I began >by reducing the timing back 2 degrees to 12 BTDC. Normal is 10 deg. I have >no cats in my car and am not concerned about the effects of the small amount >of lead in the 100-130LL aviation fuel mixed 50/50 with Amaco 93. We have no >other fuel alternative where I live, except paying a fortune for high octane >racing fuel. At Alamo we ran $8/ gallon 108 octane racing fuel. I may be >able to find it in town in someone's 50 gal hand pumped drum, but paying a >high price and limiting my fueling locations does not interest me. I >fly(helos and fixed wing)and am at the airport often. Aviation >fuel(100-130LL) is $2/gal here. Many small piston aircraft flying today are >flying on automotive fuel with a special STC waiver. Much of the testing >that has been done to allow the FAA to approve this showed that there was very >little real difference between the two(Experimental Aviation >Asso(EAA)automotive fuel test). Aviation fuel does have a higher volitility >rating because aviation fuel is often used at higher altitudes ;) This keeps >aircraft fuel from forming bubbles in the fuel as pressure becomes less with >increased altitude. > In my case this mix seems to be the best solution(but, I'm always open to >ideas). > Most of you know that my car is a pure toy(I drive a Civic CX every day). >A tank of fuel will last me 3-4 weeks even at the 8-10 mpg I get while playing >at 22-24psi. So, my fuel problems are really not big problems. I will >probably replace several oxy sensors along the way, or buy a sensor that will >not have problems with the small amounts of lead. > I don't recommend this fuel combination for the mr-2 stock or with normal >mods. I never had a problem with detonation on Amoco 93 untill I began >boosting over 18-20 psi with the high cfm turbo. > There is a lesson hidden in all this, somewhere. I guess if I keep >looking, I'll find it. >Jim Griffin 93T Hi Jim.We use a 10% addition of Toluene.Easily available in the UK,but don't know about the States.We find it excellent for hi power turbo engines.For all out race use we mix 50/50 Avgas and super unleaded,and then add a 10% of the total of Toluene.This works very well. Best Regards, Chris Wilson. http://195.44.34.159 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 22:00:31 GMT From: kasper@super.zippo.com (Kasper) Subject: Re: MR2 Exotic fuel for "The Beast" On Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:44:51 EST, you apparently wrote: >Hello Group, > Just a few thoughts on my comments on the fuel mix I am running. >After the destruction of my knock sensor, probably by detonation, it was >obvious that changes had to be made. I was going to end up with more $140 >knock sensor "dings" or burn something which would reduce detonation. I began >by reducing the timing back 2 degrees to 12 BTDC. Normal is 10 deg. Just re read this Jim.Your figures say you have *advanced* the timing,not reduced it.... I don't know if this is a typo,but the last thing you probably want is an overall timing advance.You *may* want to play with the *curve* to add more advance after peak torque,if you rev the engine harder.More *overall* advance sounds all wrong to me,though... Best Regards, Chris Wilson. http://195.44.34.159 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 11:58:41 -0800 From: ahauswal Subject: [Fwd: Re: IMOC (International MR2 Owner's Club)] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------2DE0224B1552 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all, Sammy Joseph directed me to this site. I own an '86 MKI with 26K miles on it. I look forward to exchanging information with many of you in the days to come. Looks to me like an interesting and informative digest. Arnie - --------------2DE0224B1552 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <34AA6843.4DF7@concentric.net> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:44:03 -0800 From: ahauswal Reply-To: ahauswal@concentric.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: asjoseph@as.net CC: Arnie Hauswald Subject: Re: IMOC (International MR2 Owner's Club) References: <34A964EF.797E@as.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A.S. Joseph wrote: > > Dear Arnie, > > You need to subscribe to the list (MR2 Digest). It's the central > vehicle where we all communicate. Like everything else, it's free. > Just drive over to Geoff's website, where you were > before, scroll down to "Mailing list Information." Then enter the > word: subscribe ... in the EMail text field. Don't enter anything > else but the word: subscribe ... in the uppermost left-hand corner. > But, be sure to defeat your signature default before transmitting the > subscription request. Get subscribed, because you're missing out. > > The list (or Digest) automatically ties you into upcoming > International MR2 Owner's Club events in your area, and it will likely > save you substantially on your next repair. If you're a do it > yourselfer, we'll walk you through almost any repair. All this stuff > is free Arnie... we don't want anything from you, OK? Being that you > have an MR2, then your one of the guys, and you belong on the MR2 > Digest. > > Hope to see you on the list... Welcome to IMOC, pal. > > Best, > > Sammy Joseph, '88 Supercharged MR2 > > PS- While you're there, you need to drive over to the IMOC Who's Who > registry, have a look-see, and sign in -ASJ Thanks Sammy. I'll check it out. Arnie - --------------2DE0224B1552-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 14:27:10 -0800 From: "Joseph Rago" Subject: Re: MR2 Top Speed In stock configuration the MR2t should do 140-145 as reported by various magazines. Even at 145 it has gearing for higher speeds before the rev limiter kicks in but Im not sure how much faster---in other words its a horsepower limited car rather than a gear limited car. I believe that the Japanese MR2 probably has the perfect mix of gearing and horsepower. I think Brad Bedell holds the current MR2t speed record at 176. His car had 275 40 17's on the rear which made a big change in top speed--also his motor put out 410hp at the wheels at the time. - ---------- > From: sguinn45@sprynet.com > To: mr2-digest@validgh.com > Subject: MR2 Top Speed > Date: Saturday, January 03, 1998 1:11 PM > > Anybody done the calculations on what the theoretical top > speed of a MKIIT is? Fifth gear, flat terrain, right at the > rev limiter. > Contemplating entering one of the Nevada Classics to see what > will actually happen. > I've done 130 and the car was still accelerating strongly. > Just looking for a ballpark. The Classic is rated in classes > up to Unlimited (over 180). > I'm curious where I might fit. I think the car will make > 140, maybe more. > Steve > '92 MR2T, 38,000 miles. HKS EVC, VPC, FCD, Exhaust, Air > intake, turbo timer. Nology wires, mod dist cap. Will have > turbo upgrade and larger Throttle Body by Classic time. > Suggestions for other effective bolt-on's? I don't want to go > inside the engine quite yet. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 17:30:49 -0500 From: "Mike" Subject: MR2 RPM Page This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BD186D.555E7EC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's some more IBU (interesting, but useful/useless?) info on the net. = Some info geared towards our pushrod friends, but anyway... http://www.island.net/~rpmres/index_html/drivingtopics.htm Mike 91 Red NA Still planning - ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BD186D.555E7EC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Here's some more IBU (interesting, but = useful/useless?) info=20 on the net.  Some info geared towards
our pushrod friends, but anyway...
 
http:= //www.island.net/~rpmres/index_html/drivingtopics.htm
 
Mike
91 Red NA
Still planning
- ------=_NextPart_000_0061_01BD186D.555E7EC0-- ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #53