mr2-digest Saturday, January 3 1998 Volume 02 : Number 052 Re: MR2 Exotic fuel for "The Beast" Re: MR2 Mr2 - "Trunking" communications devices, mr2_digest MR2 TURBO : SCC Engine Building (Mark Sink listening?) MR2 Atlantic City Meet, Sunday, Jan 4, 1998 Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A MR2 Turbo - injector duty cycle readings recent MR2 problems MR2 Forgot, one more thing Re: MR2 MKII Noise reduction? MR2 radio codes MR2 Japanese to American comparisons ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:19:08 -0800 From: Karen or Jeffrey Subject: Re: MR2 Exotic fuel for "The Beast" At 10:44 AM 1/3/98 EST, Ace123JIM wrote: >by reducing the timing back 2 degrees to 12 BTDC. Normal is 10 deg. > I don't recommend this fuel combination for the mr-2 stock or with normal >mods. I never had a problem with detonation on Amoco 93 untill I began >boosting over 18-20 psi with the high cfm turbo. > There is a lesson hidden in all this, somewhere. I guess if I keep >looking, I'll find it. Just some thoughts Jim. It seems like you're more interested in correcting the fuel in order to alleviate your detonation -- how about trying something else in order to avoid detonation? Ignition timing -- Do you really need the 2 degree advance? I'm really hesitant about advancing ignition timing on a turbocharged car. Do the horsepower gains justify the risk? Spark Plugs -- NGK recommends 1 step colder for every additional 75-100hp Head Gasket -- lower that compression ratio :) Intercooling -- sounds like you better start researching a liquid intercooler if you plan to keep boost levels that high. Can the Greddy unit handle that flow @ that boost and cool it well enough? One of the bigger problems of having a monster MR2 is intercooling. As you can Blitz/Garage/others knows the REAL road-racing solution is to gut the trunk. Do you have an EGT? If not, it's probably time to get one and watch it carefully. > Most of you know that my car is a pure toy(I drive a Civic CX every day). >A tank of fuel will last me 3-4 weeks even at the 8-10 mpg I get while playing >at 22-24psi. Hrmmm... you should hotrod the Civic CX too! :) A little bit of B18C and turbocharging sounds good to me! Even with the hotrodded CX, 30+mpg is common on pump gas even. :) - - Jeffrey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 12:10:12 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: Re: MR2 Mr2 - "Trunking" communications devices, mr2_digest Steve B. wrote in response to a post I made: >What you are describing sounds more like 'freq-hopping' then 'trunking'. >Freq-hopping is big with the military, also. You'll have 100 freqs, spend >1/100 of a second on each freq, and if a person scans to a certain single >freq they'll hear 1/100th of each second. > >Trunking is usually referring to commercial communcations. The trunking >common-carrier will have 30 freqs and 500 customers groups, under the >expectation that no more then 30 customer will be using their 'group' at >any one time. A group-member takes over a channel (rarely the same one) >from 1 to 30, and everyone else's radio picks up on that freq. To follow a >trunk is more to follow a company's (such as service or maintenance) >business over the radio. This would actually make sense, for monitoring at >the central locations - to buy a trunked-radio for monitoring only would be >expensive (nice Motorola radio's are *not* cheap and as much as $1000+, and >you'd be 'obligated' to pay for service with the common carrier). If you >can buy a scanner for $100-$200 to do the same thing, but with RX only, >that would make sense (financially). Also, it would be most usefull in >making up a full-duplex phone-patch, over trunked lines. > >I have wondered why noone has brought up the trunked-radio idea, for the >SoCal rallys... > >Steve B. Steve, Once again, I bow to your volumnous knowledge on subjects I'm interested in! I knew a little, but not enough. What I don't understand is how an inexpensive receiver can automatically follow the trunked frequencies of one of those commercial carriers. Hmmm... Maybe you have to know the frequencies, program them in, and have the scanner "lock" up on one of the memories. That would be easy enough to do... My VHF/UHF ham radio transceivers have the ability to scan a bank of pre-programmed frequencies at a rapid rate, then lock up on a signal on just one of those frequencies. If that's all there is to it, most commercially available scanners can do this. - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:27:32 -0800 From: Karen or Jeffrey Subject: MR2 TURBO : SCC Engine Building (Mark Sink listening?) In the latest issue of SCC, they show Brice @ Alamo doing piston modification in order to avoid thier stroking to interfere w/ an oil passage/jet. Mark Sink, did you see this? Is this the same sort of situation you had? Just wondering. :) - - Jeffrey ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 12:25:37 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: MR2 Atlantic City Meet, Sunday, Jan 4, 1998 The weather is going to hold out! NO chance of rain until Sunday night. It's going to be warm, with temperatures up in the 50's! Let's have a show of hands! PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE PLANNING ON ATTENDING! So far, the attendees are Aly Abulkheir, myself and Roxanne, and Chris Conrad. If you show up, I will guarantee you the BEST damn hoagie/submarine/sub/zeppelin in the world! Here is a re-post of the itinerary... 1) Caravan down to A.C. with other MR2's going your way. Meet them halfway or whatever to make your drive to A.C. more enjoyable. Use the Digest to find out who's going your way. 2) 10:30 - 11:30 AM Meet just past The Flagship Hotel/Condo, which is in the Inlet area of Atlantic City. Directions - Once inside of A.C., take Atlantic Ave. (a major north/south street just 2 blocks from the Boardwalk) all the way up to the northern extreme (this means that the Atlantic Ocean is on your right driving up Atlantic Ave., for all you "directionally-challenged drivers". Follow Atlantic Ave. to the end where it bears around to the left. Now the inlet is alongside your right. You can see The Flagship Hotel/Condo about 5 blocks away from it as you are driving up Atlantic Avenue. There is an area to pull over just after the hotel and before the iron framework of a building that you will see on the right (this was the old "Hackney's Restaurant"). The end of the Boardwalk is on your right. This area is no longer a bad area. Just look for the other MR2's. 11:30 AM Drive down Pacific Avenue past all the casinos and all of the modern Atlantic City "action", head down through the southern part of A.C. and do a sight-seeing drive through Margate and Ventnor. Drive through an interesting section of primo real estate in Longport and wind up at "The Point", the southenmost tip of the island. There is another parking area there. Get out of the cars and enjoy the scenery. 1:00 PM Head back up to Atlantic City for lunch @ the best submarine/hoagie/zeppelin joint in the world called "White House Subs", which I heartily recommend. It is a world-famous place. There is a free parking lot across the street, and interestingly enough, the lot is owned by Bob Guccione (of Penthouse fame). 2:30 PM AT this point, we can park at a casino hotel and take a walk on the Boardwalk (maybe to the new Steel Pier), or if you want a quieter casino, go to Harrah's in the Marina district. Some of us aren't gamblers, so going to a Boardwalk casino might be best. Parking at all the A.C. casinos is $2.00 for the entire day, and that is actually a city fee, so you are covered at all the casinos if you keep your receipt. Please get in touch and let me know if you are coming. See you there this Sunday, January 4th! - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 19:33:35 +0200 From: "Kostas G.D.Chryssos Ph.D." Subject: Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A At 15:25 31/12/1997 -0500, you wrote: >I better be careful about how I word this... NO FLAMES PLEASE! > >I have found the 93+ ABS seems to be better than the 91/92 system. I >don't know if there are different parts to it or if it's just different >biasing, but it seems to work better and stop faster. Of course it could >be just the bigger rotors too. It seems to me that on my 93 when I slam >the brakes hard enough to invoke the ABS it actually takes it to the >threshold of lock-up, and I can actually hear brief little chirps from >the tires. On the 91/92 models I've driven the ABS seems to activate >sooner and intervenes well before the lock-up threshold. Can ayone >verify if there is a difference in the parts? > > Yes true, had the same thing myself. It all cleared with the up-grade to 93+ brakes only (NOT ABS). Seems the new brake/caliper system works MUCH better. Kostas G.D.Chryssos Ph.D. ELFON Ltd., 30 Ikarias str., GLYFADA 16675 Athens, HELLAS (GREECE) Tel: ++ 30-1-9628212 Fax: ++ 30-1-9649833 e-mail: sv1bt@compulink.gr / sv1bt@otenet.gr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 19:35:48 +0200 From: "Kostas G.D.Chryssos Ph.D." Subject: Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A At 15:14 31/12/1997 -0600, you wrote: >>I have found the 93+ ABS seems to be better than the 91/92 system. I >>don't know if there are different parts to it or if it's just different >>biasing, but it seems to work better and stop faster. > >This could be caused by the difference in tire size. Remember that 91-92's >have stock 14's whereas the 93 has 15's. Just a thought though... > >Chris K. >91 NA > No, the larger tires just made it worse. It is the brakes that did the trick, not the tiree, not the ABS. Kostas G.D.Chryssos Ph.D. ELFON Ltd., 30 Ikarias str., GLYFADA 16675 Athens, HELLAS (GREECE) Tel: ++ 30-1-9628212 Fax: ++ 30-1-9649833 e-mail: sv1bt@compulink.gr / sv1bt@otenet.gr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 12:37:38 -0500 From: Jamie Dennis Subject: MR2 Turbo - injector duty cycle readings Anyone have an injector duty cycle meter hooked up to their turbo 2? I have the racer wholesale a/f meter & inj. duty cycle combo meter, and have it hooked up (possibly incorrectly). I think I grabbed one of the injector wires to splice in to, and am seeing readings that could be correct, but I'm not sure. I verified before splicing in to the wire that the voltage of the wire dropped as RPM's rose... With the meter hooked up, I am seeing about 10-20% duty cycle on fast idle, no reading on normal idle... What gets me is that pretty early I get to 100% injector duty cycle (thought according to the a/f meter, I'm rich at 1.05kg/cm^2, near redline - 13.2 a/f ratio). So, has anyone hooked it up, and what kind of readings are you seeing? I can send a picture of where I tapped into.... Thanks for any help! - -Jamie Dennis '93 Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 09:45:31 -0800 From: "Henry" Subject: recent MR2 problems Hi list members. I've been following the digest ever since I get my own 2 this past summer. Welp... Something has flopped on me and I don't know exactly what it is. Here's the story: I pulled a spark plug wire from the distributor to inspect it and plugged it back in. I also pulled it from the valve cover and plugged that back in also. 10 minutes later, I start the car and I get a check engine light. So I thought it might be something with the spark plugs and got a set of Bosch Platinums, gapped them to .032 like told, and installed them. Well, check engine light didn't go away. Next morning, I go to start the car and it starts but 2 or 3 seconds later, the car just dies. If repeated around 4 times, the car will hold but will maintain the check engine light for 5-10 minutes and power will be cut about 1/2 from normal. I had Autolite 3924s in there before and they looked kinda rustyish... Well, it's been like that for 5 days.... Now, I can actually start without dying but the car will randomly give the check engine light and overall power is about 3/5 or so. How do I check the error codes (except by taking it to the dealer)? I have a 93 Turbo with 62k miles so I'm outta warranty. Anybody got a clue? Henry H. jeffk@metro.net <----you can reach me here (my account has gone cuckoo. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:02:23 -0800 From: "Henry" Subject: MR2 Forgot, one more thing I recently got a oil change at Chevron Oilstop and ever since then, after maybe 15 minutes of driving, the lower right most light in my dash, something like a engine with a fan to it lights up and refuses to go away. My egine temperature remains normal on the left. What could it be? Thanks, Henry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:32:49 EST From: DaddyCat1 Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Noise reduction? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_883852369_boundary Content-ID: <0_883852369@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-01-03 00:29:53 EST, TerrySaltzman@Home.com writes: > these carz are pretty quiet IMO (for a sposts car). instead of > spending lots of $$ and more time installing the mat and adding > weight look at your tires. what are they? this is where 90% of your > road noise comes from. what type of tires are you running? > I concur with Terry--and Steve B's later msg--tire suggestion. We attempted numerous fixes to eliminate "droning" after buying Joyce's '93NA this summer: t-tops off all the time (best solution but couldn't hear the stereo either); white noise generator (Joyce said to shut up and let her drive); 50W/ch stereoctomy (worked great until we put the car back together and drove it); and checking the driveshaft (it was missing, but the car still ran OK so I guess that's good). Anyhoo, an errant traffic island (can you say "Titanic"?) darted out in front of Joyce one day and broke both her left-side wheels and tires. Observed very little noise from the spare tire or the tow truck. THE POINT: A fresh set of Dunlop SP8000's and the droning is gone. CAUTION: Every silver lining has its cloud and now we've got to figure out how to eliminate the stereo/alternator whine we never noticed before... DYNAMAT: We found the key areas--floor, rear firewall, tranny tunnel--of the MKII to be pretty well insulated from the factory, so we only installed a little Dynamat to the wheel wells and inside the doors. Little added weight but lotsa sound attenuated. Cliff "Can'tjustsendasimplee-mail" Skajem, San Jose, California '93 NA, '93T, '97 T&C w/no tire noise or alternator whine - --part0_883852369_boundary Content-ID: <0_883852369@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from relay10.mail.aol.com (relay10.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.10]) by air13.mail.aol.com (v37.8) with SMTP; Sat, 03 Jan 1998 00:29:53 -0500 Received: from slapshot.hockey.net (slapshot.hockey.net [209.98.94.3]) by relay10.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id AAA04249; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:25:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by slapshot.hockey.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA05974 for mr2-outgoing; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:23:31 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: slapshot.hockey.net: majordomo set sender to owner-mr2@slapshot.hockey.net using -f Received: from www.salsgiver.com (www.salsgiver.com [206.67.234.10]) by slapshot.hockey.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA05958 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 23:23:23 -0600 Received: from ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com (siteadm@ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com [24.0.3.66]) by www.salsgiver.com (8.8.6/8.8.6) with ESMTP id AAA14298 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 00:18:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from cx269065-a.dt1.sdca.home.com ([24.0.135.39]) by ha1.rdc1.sdca.home.com (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA20690; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:23:50 -0800 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: TerrySaltzman@Home.com Organization: T's Boneless Chicken Ranch "hang with us!" To: mr2-interest@mr2.com, Mr2toy726 Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:24:20 -0008 Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Noise reduction? In-reply-to: X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Message-ID: <19980103052350.AAA20690@cx269065-a.dt1.sdca.home.com> Sender: owner-mr2@slapshot.hockey.net Precedence: bulk Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit > My 91 NA MR2 is LOUD! The stock exhaust noise is OK, but the road noise about > 70 mph is pretty bad...I know I can add Dynamat to the interior under the > carpet, but do I have to coat the entire floorpan, front and rear firewalls? I > ask for 2 reasons..1) Dynamat is expensive (about $10/square foot) 2) > Dynamat is pretty heavy too. these carz are pretty quiet IMO (for a sposts car). instead of spending lots of $$ and more time installing the mat and adding weight look at your tires. what are they? this is where 90% of your road noise comes from. what type of tires are you running? a noisy driver in a quiet car- terry - --part0_883852369_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 13:46:34 EST From: TLC4WD Subject: MR2 radio codes I had the master codes a while back but have misplaced them and my radio is locked up due to my replacing the battery. I couldn't find any info on the web page of the FAQ. thanks for any help. Darryl W. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 14:13:23 -0500 From: Phil Cutajar Subject: MR2 Japanese to American comparisons > And let's be > realistic -- you can't compare the "road feel" of an MR2 to typical > American sedans or coupes; be realistic! This sorry old thread has gone on for so long that I can't help getting involved. Joe's statements make a good point. However, I contend that comparisons can easily be made on a smaller scale, such as: - - the turn signal stock. Have you ever tried the turn signal on any Chevy product? It feels like the thing will snap off in your hand! And even the new 98 Camaro still has these (they had to have been designed 20 yrs ago or more). - -Or how about those 30 year old slider controls for the heater? I haven't seen those on any Jap product since early 80's. And to top it off, most don't have venting, only fan driven air movement. Even my 84 Honda had electric controls, and a vent position to let in fresh air. - -Hey, how about those leaf spring suspensions that were still around on Camaros till the late 80's? And they still have them on all trucks and SUV's. Is that modern engineering, or what? - -Or how about the fit and finish, interior trim, cabin design, etc.? Have you ever been in an american car that doesn't rattle, squeak, pop or snap? Have you ever driven an american car that doesn't have a lot of wind noise? Heck, some american cars still have a bench front seat option. Boy, those were comfortable. - -Or how about those integrated brake/turn signal lights and lenses... why are so many american cars still using a dual purpose turn/brake signal? And the turn signal lens is red too! No other car maker uses red, and none have ever had dual purpose brake/turn signals that I know of. Is there any qestion as to which is easier to see? - -How about shifters? You think our weak synchros on the MKII's are bad... try a chevy crunchy tranny out and you'll be begging for your Toyota shifter. However, I must admit that Toyotas aren't as smooth as my previous Hondas. - -How about remote trunk releases? Geez, even the 70's Jap cars all had them. Yet, it seems that american cars either don't have them, or they charge extra for a "POWER" trunk release. And even then, they put it somewhere so unintuitive, like the Taurus/Sable button on the dash below the steering, or in the center console between the front seats, or worse... in the glove box! And how many american cars have a locking gas filler door, with remote release? - -And then the engines. Don't get me started here! This is one area where americans have made very little progress on their own in the past 20 years. PUSHRODS?!! My 4.0 litre V6 1993 Ford Explorer is a joke! And, I still remember my dad's mid-80's Chevy Malibu... with that poor excuse 305 engine. Man that thing pinged from day-one and no amount of tuning or gas octane would fix it. In today's market, the only true american sports cars are the Chevy Corvette and the Dodge Viper. And we're not talking about any major exotic refinement here, they still take the brute force cubic inch displacement approach, but with a little added electronics wizardry. So no direct comparisons can be easilly drawn between Jap and American cars in this segment. But, take a Lexus GS300 and compare it to say a Cadillac Catera or Lincoln. Bet you won't even bother to test drive the american cars if you drive the Lexus first. Or, for a throwback how about a Chevette of Pinto to Civic comparison? I've always viewed the american cars this way... the Fords, GMs and Chryslers took the minimalist approach... do the least to get the job done and to just get by. Whereas the Japanese approach is continuous improvement, taking every little thing and refining it further and further until it is nearly perfect. You may pay a little more for this continuous cycle, but you'll be a lot happier and satisfied with your product, and it will last longer. If it weren't for the Japanese revolutionizing the car market, we would still be driving cars with fins, carbs, drum brakes, solid axles, leaf springs, idiot lights, bench seats, etc. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going out to catch some Florida rays by the heated pool in 80 degrees, where Chevron 93 octane with techron is 1.29. - -- Phil Cutajar '93 MR2-Turbo, Super White, 74k miles K&N FIPK, MR2-PP MBC mailto:Solo2_MR2@ibm.net my web page:http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/6213/index.htm ICQ #6032611 ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #52