mr2-digest Saturday, January 3 1998 Volume 02 : Number 051 MR2 Your new engine MR2: MKII Lots of questions about mods in CA. NSW MR2 club meeting at Wakefield, Goulburn Australia Re: MR2 Insurance Rates Re: MR2 MKII Noise reduction? MR2 Re: Alternator Specs MR2 '91 vs '93 ABS MR2 MKII shifting probs MR2 MKII electrical failure MR2 MKII electrical failure MR2 Exotic fuel for "The Beast" Re: MR2 1/4 DIN MR2 IMOC Decals MR2 MKI:Title question MR2 Squeaky Sway Bar Bushings MR2 MkII: The new suspension is installed... Re: MR2 IMOC Decals ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 04:23:26 EST From: Kurowski Subject: MR2 Your new engine In a message dated 1/2/98 12:16:01 AM, you wrote: >When I complete my engine swap (AE-92 into AW-11), I'll have to >learn to drive my car all over again. I suspect it will be less of an >understeerer. I'm quite intriqued by your new engine. What is it? Is it a Japanese 4AGZE or what? How much (if I may be so bold to ask) is this costing you? Also, I know you've driven some interesting cars in your past (did you mention the Nazca C2 or something like that previously?). How did you get into that sort of business, anyway? Hope the next rally doesn't get rained upon! Paul Janicki kurowski@aol.com San Jose, CA, USA White 86 Mk1 135,000 miles ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 02:17:23 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wootten Subject: MR2: MKII Lots of questions about mods in CA. I have a couple of question and comments about upgrading my 92T. After talking to several list members, I am going with 16 inch rims. It was several peoples opinions that I might be dissatisfied with the relatively small loss of power that I will experience with the larger/wider tire configuration. This basically makes sense, more rubber in contact, equals more friction. So, I have begun looking into different mods. I have 54k miles on my 2 and will likely have the turbo rebuilt after 65-70k, which is not all that long. I have heard that I can have the turbo modified to give me more power. So what do they do? Change the angles on the impeller? Increase the capacity of the housing? I have also notice that many of the list members have blow off valves and turbo times. I pretty much understand a BOV as acting as a pressure regulator for the turbo, releasing pressure above a certain psi, and storing some psi when it is too low. Is this correct? Can someone quantify how this will help the performance of my car. Will just adding a BOV increase my hp, or will I have to boost the turbo psi and change the stock fuel cut off? Is this something one can install himself without cutting into the exhaust or turbo housing? I have no clear idea what a turbo timer is. Help? I understand that the intercooler, cools that air that is pumped out of the turbo, before it enters that intake. Is this correct and is it a worth while mod? I have the perception that I would be content (not forever) with around 250 - 275 hp with the new tires and rims. That would be enough to make up for the difference and then a little more. I know that more hp is just as addictive as any other drug. Will a fuel rail mod be in order for 250 - 275 hp? If not at what point is it? Will I need to get a stronger fuel pump for this hp? Can the stock one be adjusted up? Are after market ignition parts (wires, ect) a good idea for this hp range? I have the common gurgling noise from the turbo, if I don't let it cool long enough. What can I do to alleviate this. My wife will not sit long enough for the car to cool, when she is driving. Someone on the list mentioned that they had their car rigged to run for a period of time after they set the alarm. Could you share what it is that you did? Does Wetter than Water help? Is there a temperature sensor that I can install to monitor when it is cool enough to shut off? I live in California, so smog laws will need to be considered, with my mods. I also don't want a really loud car. I was able to pull mid 4's in my 0 to 60 times in one of my first cars, and it was barely louder than stock (unless at WOT). This is what I would like to do with my 2. I would like to get my power ratio better without sacrificing too much noise. thanks for the help in advance! rick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 22:03:06 +1000 From: Robin San Subject: NSW MR2 club meeting at Wakefield, Goulburn Australia Hi guys Its a bit late to tell you guys I guess, but on Sunday 4th of Jan the MR2 club of Australia (NSW and VIC) are having their annual meeting at Wakefield park raceway in Goulburn. Anyone who is interested in coming along and having a look see is most welcome. The track in case anyone doesnt know is on Braidwood road in Goulburn. I believe that events will be getting on the way by about 930am and we should be there till about 5pmish to make the most of our track time. Seeya Robin San ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:01:45 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 Insurance Rates >David H.'s response to the 'new member' regarding their comment about high >insurance for a MR2 Turbo got me wondering about rates around the country. >What are you all paying per year? What model and year MR2? Full coverage? >Location? Haven't we been through this already? :) $1200?/year/USAA. MI. '91T/storage. '85SC/PIP-Liability only. '90 Camry All-Trac/full. '91 Escort/full. >93 Teal Turbo $1200/year Full coverage Reno, NV >P.S. What in the world is 'trunking'? If you gotta ask... Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 08:02:30 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Noise reduction? >My 91 NA MR2 is LOUD! The stock exhaust noise is OK, but the road noise about >70 mph is pretty bad...I know I can add Dynamat to the interior under the >carpet, but do I have to coat the entire floorpan, front and rear firewalls? I >ask for 2 reasons..1) Dynamat is expensive (about $10/square foot) 2) >Dynamat is pretty heavy too. I've driven my '91T for 750 miles non-stop once, and didn't even notice the noise. What tires are you running? That's probably where most of your road noise is coming from. >In the search for more power for my 91 NA MR2 I am considering adding a cat >back exhaust, but first I have a few questions: > >Is it worth much power (assuming I have a free flow filter setup)? (So far I >have heard they are wort about 20hp together). If you want power, buy a turbo. Otherwise, you might as well buy a boat ('hole in the water to throw money into'?). >Are there any secrets to putting my 91 NA MR2 on a diet? Nothing drastic >(like lexan windows and acid dipped fenders) but I would like to loose a few >lbs. I want to keep the interior stock (no lightweight racing seats) and I >don't want to spend a fortune...so far my plan is to ditch the spare tire, >toolkit, jack remove all the plastic covers in the front storage area and the >support rod that holds it open. Any other insight into this? BTW what does a >typical 91 NA MKII weigh? Doesn't your first post and third post contradict each other? Well, so far you've saved about 20 lbs... Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 07:42:03 -0600 From: Kory Yingling Subject: MR2 Re: Alternator Specs Thanks for the reply. The replacment brushes for the alternator are $15 and the rectifier $125!! I found a refurbed one at Gateway for $95 (+60 core charge), but I wanted to inspect it to ensure the internals were in fact the 80A (or maybe teh 100A) and inside the rectifier WAS NOT bolted down. the four screws that hold the brush leads to the rectifier are NOT there and the two screws holding the regulator to the case were not either!, so my old screws from the worn out alternator are going to hold this puppy together until I feel copfident there is nothing else missing from it! (I guess you get what you pay for! - something a poor college kid cant stand!) Kory ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:40:07 EST From: bluemr2@juno.com Subject: MR2 '91 vs '93 ABS Hmmm, my '91 chirps the tires until I get stopped when the ABS is active, but the '93 I test drove did not! Does anyone know if the ABS is speed dependent, 'cause if I slam on the brakes below about 20 mph the ABS does not function and I leave black streaks behind the car :-) Brian '91 MR2 NA ___________________________________________________ I have found the 93+ ABS seems to be better than the 91/92 system. I don't know if there are different parts to it or if it's just different biasing, but it seems to work better and stop faster. Of course it could be just the bigger rotors too. It seems to me that on my 93 when I slam the brakes hard enough to invoke the ABS it actually takes it to the threshold of lock-up, and I can actually hear brief little chirps from the tires. On the 91/92 models I've driven the ABS seems to activate sooner and intervenes well before the lock-up threshold. Can ayone verify if there is a difference in the parts? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:40:07 EST From: bluemr2@juno.com Subject: MR2 MKII shifting probs >Having some probs with my shifter. For one thing I have the all too common >bad synchros and it has been getting harder and harder to shift. Seems to >me like the temperature affects this a lot more than I would have thought Try shifting right after starting the car when it's been sitting in -20 degrees F and 30mph winds all night! I pushed the shifter to the left side and it just stayed there, required force to get it to move back to the center. I'm glad that was a weather anomaly for our area (last year), as I would hate having to let the car warm up for 5 minutes every day in the winter! >- - ie ok when it's warm; bad when it's cold. I am aware of the fact that >changing the trans fluid would help, but I am trying to hold off until I do It helps a lot more than I thought it would. >makes a clicking noise when I go into any of these gears because the >shifter is actually hitting the plastic that holds the base of the shift I don't know what causes it, but on quick 2-3 shifts, mine makes a plasticy sounding "pop", but if I shift slower, it does not do that. Brian '91 MR2 NA ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 09:40:07 EST From: bluemr2@juno.com Subject: MR2 MKII electrical failure MR2 MKII electrical failure I hate "me too" messages, but here it is :-) ME TOO! Once this happened to me where the car started to crank and then sudden darkness. The only thing that worked was the "door ajar" light (which went off when I pushed on the brake pedal). Got a jump from a tow truck (refused jump from a passerby 'cause I thought I might have a short somewhere) started right up. HOWEVER, the voltmeter showed a wildly fluctuating voltage when under 3k rpms during the drive home. No problems since. hehe, now my dads Grand Am has developed a problem where it will gradually start "losing" electrical devices while driving. The other night, the clock and radio would not work, couple minutes later the speedo went out, couple more minutes headlights went out, then the fog lights, then the engine would no longer make enough power to accelerate, then the power steering went as I was coasting into a gas station, then the engine died. It started right back up though. Brian '91 MR2 NA ___________________________________________________ On two occasions, I have hopped in the car, put the key into the ignition, turned, and .... blackness suddenly envelopes me. Complete electrical shutdown. After that, no courtesy lights, no dash lights, no warning chimes, no nothing. Everything is completely normal up until the instant of the failure, and it is again completely normal after I get a jump from a kind-hearted passerby. No amount of waiting, cursing, or asking the car nicely will bring it back. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:44:51 EST From: Ace123JIM Subject: MR2 Exotic fuel for "The Beast" Hello Group, Just a few thoughts on my comments on the fuel mix I am running. After the destruction of my knock sensor, probably by detonation, it was obvious that changes had to be made. I was going to end up with more $140 knock sensor "dings" or burn something which would reduce detonation. I began by reducing the timing back 2 degrees to 12 BTDC. Normal is 10 deg. I have no cats in my car and am not concerned about the effects of the small amount of lead in the 100-130LL aviation fuel mixed 50/50 with Amaco 93. We have no other fuel alternative where I live, except paying a fortune for high octane racing fuel. At Alamo we ran $8/ gallon 108 octane racing fuel. I may be able to find it in town in someone's 50 gal hand pumped drum, but paying a high price and limiting my fueling locations does not interest me. I fly(helos and fixed wing)and am at the airport often. Aviation fuel(100-130LL) is $2/gal here. Many small piston aircraft flying today are flying on automotive fuel with a special STC waiver. Much of the testing that has been done to allow the FAA to approve this showed that there was very little real difference between the two(Experimental Aviation Asso(EAA)automotive fuel test). Aviation fuel does have a higher volitility rating because aviation fuel is often used at higher altitudes ;) This keeps aircraft fuel from forming bubbles in the fuel as pressure becomes less with increased altitude. In my case this mix seems to be the best solution(but, I'm always open to ideas). Most of you know that my car is a pure toy(I drive a Civic CX every day). A tank of fuel will last me 3-4 weeks even at the 8-10 mpg I get while playing at 22-24psi. So, my fuel problems are really not big problems. I will probably replace several oxy sensors along the way, or buy a sensor that will not have problems with the small amounts of lead. I don't recommend this fuel combination for the mr-2 stock or with normal mods. I never had a problem with detonation on Amoco 93 untill I began boosting over 18-20 psi with the high cfm turbo. There is a lesson hidden in all this, somewhere. I guess if I keep looking, I'll find it. Jim Griffin 93T ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 17:49:11 +0200 From: "Kostas G.D.Chryssos Ph.D." Subject: Re: MR2 1/4 DIN At 13:24 29/12/1997 EST, you wrote: >well, in my 91, i have a single din alpine receiver...a few months ago, i went >to install a single din alpine equalizer..but lo and behold, the lower opening >is not a full din...it's about 3/4 din.(I had to go with a 1/2 din alpine >equalizer with no spectrum analyzer..dammit..) So, in answer to your question, >you could probably fit about 3 of the electronic units in, unless you chose to >hack away at the plastic. > >ke!th >------------ >91na (been in the body shop 40 days and counting....waaaaaaahhhh...) The space is full 2 x DIN. In one DIN applications there is a plastic spacer with a slot in it which takes most of the space so it just looks as if it is 1/2 DIN. That is true for the standard US center consoles. Could be that the European Consoles be different. Kostas G.D.Chryssos Ph.D. ELFON Ltd., 30 Ikarias str., GLYFADA 16675 Athens, HELLAS (GREECE) Tel: ++ 30-1-9628212 Fax: ++ 30-1-9649833 e-mail: sv1bt@compulink.gr / sv1bt@otenet.gr ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 10:00:14 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 IMOC Decals HI everyone. I finally got off my rump and found a printer. With Geoff's permission, I've had the IMOC insignia made into static cling decals, which I should have by the 20th. for details, check out http://www.twosrus.com/imoc.htm profits from these will go to Geoff for mr2.com, Steve H. for the SC registry and to offset costs that I have from the MKII registry (DMV VIN search fees, etc). I'm open to other ideas for this insignia. ONe that I want to pursue is having it made up on magnets so that we can claim Geoff as a sponsor for autox and things like that. Show the colors! Support IMOC and mr2.com! And register those MKIIs and SCs!!!!! David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/RMS S.P/RMS MBC 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:59:23 EST From: Sport Ridr Subject: MR2 MKI:Title question I have come across an 87 MR-2, white, with custom 15"rims, and 87k miles on the clock. It is in really great shape all for a little paint fading on the hood. It has the areo body, (rear spoiler and ground effects) and the motor cranks up first try. I drove it around the parking lot and it seems to run fine. Its been sitting behind a car dealer for months. There is one problem, the title says unrebuildable on it. I immediately thought it had been totaled, so with mine and a friends body work experience, we looked throughout the entire car for any signs of previous damage. Yet, we could find know signs of previous wreck and repair work. The car seems to be in stock shape. Wierd. Anyway, the guy that owns the mr2 is actually just a friend of the guy that owns the car lot. They will take $1000 bucks for it. Can this car be retitle to drive on the road? Mike Craig 86 MR2 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 12:00:45 -0500 From: "Tommy Guttmann" Subject: MR2 Squeaky Sway Bar Bushings When you guys are talking about lubricating sway bar bushings, you're talking about the "urethane" ones from an aftermarket sway-bar kit, right? (Use silicone grease) Not the OE rubber ones. If these squeak...just replace them, they're finished. Tommy Guttmann tools@tooltech.qc.ca Montreal, Canada 2 x Mk1 SC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:57:48 -0500 From: "Tommy Guttmann" Subject: MR2 MkII: The new suspension is installed... > > I set the Tokicos to the softest setting(5?) to start. > > #5 is the stiffest. it is not recommended that you use this > setting out of the box. let the seals break in and then crank em > up, otherwise you run the possibility of popping seals. > > >They were > > super stiff at first, after about 2-3 weeks they softened up and > > I currently have them set to 3 for street. I do have to face fairly > > good sized bumps around my area. I have the stock 14" rims. > > personally i set the struts on #1 on all fours for normal city > driving when im feeling frisky/sporting i adj according to my > attitude and emotional disposition.on #5 i WILL use the whole > road : ) Street settings will vary depending on the frequency/rate of the springs being used. For my Mk1, I was told that #1 approximates stock (with "stock" springs), BUT since I installed them with very stiff TRD springs, anything less than #2 would allow lots of bobbing. #3 seems to be the best match for these particular springs for street...although a friend's Mk1 seems happiest at #2 with his softer Eibachs. For track, OTOH, it's #5...you never can seem to get stiff enough. I don't like the idea of using shocks to "tune" handling, rather just to perhaps "trim" it, since all they can be expected to do is to affect initial response. I find that using anything harder than #3 on street is just too harsh and the car crashes over everything rather than absorbing. So, I would start with #2 or #3 going as soft as possible without "bobbing". BTW, Geoff, do you notice the car being much harsher with the TRD bushings (I didn't notice much difference...) Regards Tommy Guttmann tools@tooltech.qc.ca Montreal, Canada 2 x Mk1 SC ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:59:52 EST From: WeyrAbouts Subject: Re: MR2 IMOC Decals In a message dated 98-01-03 11:01:03 EST, otgrouch@twosrus.com writes: << With Geoff's permission, I've had the IMOC insignia made into static cling decals, which I should have by the 20th. For details, check out http://www.twosrus.com/imoc.htm profits from these will go to Geoff for mr2.com, Steve H. for the SC registry and to offset costs that I have from the MKII registry (DMV VIN search fees, etc).>> Profits? What profits? At $1.00 each, we can afford to paper the garage with these decals! I am going to order a couple for myself, but I can send one larger order for all the DC IMOC members that want one - this will give us a good excuse for a get together to distribute them. Let me know! Lj - using the nice sunny day to grudgingly remove the beautiful NM plates and replace with ugly old MD ones ... ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #51