mr2-digest Friday, January 2 1998 Volume 02 : Number 048 MR2 MkII: The new suspension is installed... (1/2) MR2 MkII: The new suspension is installed... (2/2) MR2 aeroware and scanners RE: MR2 MKII : Summary of noises over bumps Re: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, how much Hp to expect using standard computer MR2 Re: MK1: TRD 272 cams, how much Hp to expect using standard computer MR2 Lubricants to use for swaybar bushings (or any other rubber) MR2-American vs. Japanese car quality MR2 Atlantic City Meet, Sunday, Jan 4, 1998 MR2 Long production run on those Fire-o's MR2 New member intro./MKII NA modifications? MR2 SC for sale....? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Jan 98 22:43:47 From: gseeley@island.net (Geoff Seeley) Subject: MR2 MkII: The new suspension is installed... (1/2) First off, here's another entry for the "You know your're an MR2 addict when..." list: You spend all your Christmas break installing a suspension on your MR2 :) Anyway, the Tokico Illuminas and Eibach springs are now in and working well... I also installed the following new parts: - - TRD strut top plates - - TRD bushings on the front strut bar - - Crash bolts (with new nuts) - - Bumpers (rubber boots) - - '93+ Stabilizer links and nuts - - Front dust seals - - Rear collars Observations: 1. The front rubber boots were shot! They were split in several places. I used some silicone spray on the new boots before installation and I plan to give them a good spray every 6 months or so. Definately replace these if you have any strut work done. 2. The front dust seals were basically shot and there was little bearing grease left in the bearing it seals. I added some extra grease on the new top plates' bearing before installing the dust seal. 3. The TRD strut top plates appear to be the same as the OEM (91) ones. Same part number at least on the fronts and I couldn't detect any visual differences. The rubber material may be harder but I couldn't tell... 4. The TRD strut bar bushings have the same part number as the OEM one, however the TRD set consists of TWO of the front-most OEM bushing whereas the OEM rear bushing is much smaller in depth. 5. According to a description of the OEM strut fluid by Kerry Wood, I'd say all four of my struts were basically shot even though they passed the "bounce" test. The OEM fluid was black when I disassembled all four struts. (According to Kerry, it should be a yellow color). I'm not surprized though with 226,000km :) 6. The top of the rear strut plates were rusting. The rubber coating on the top was worn(?) off which allowed the metal to rust some. There was also some rust around the collar which is under the large top nut. I'm guessing that water splashed up from the wheel wells found its way into the top of the strut plate and into the collar area. Perhaps some sort of sealing around the top plate might stop this? BTW, no rust on the fronts due to the way the front strut plates are designed. 7. The gland nuts on the front struts were slightly rusted at the top of the threads and one BARELY came off before the weld was starting to break... I used anti-seize compound on the new gland nuts provided with the Tokicos. 8. I decided NOT to use the provided spacers under the strut gland nut as it didn't seem to engage enough of the threads with them. Did anyone running Tokico's use these spacers? 9. The ride height before was: (measured from road to the middle of the fender) LF: 25 3/8" RF: 25 2/8" LR: 25 1/2" RR: 25 2/8" (Hmm, bad spring?) Ride height after was: (Much more consistant) LF: 24 3/4" RF: 24 3/4" LR: 24 1/2" RR: 24 1/2" The car looks MUCH better at this height with the stock 14" rims but it's BEGGING for at least 16" rims to fill out those wheel wells... (My next project :) (continued) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 98 22:44:42 From: gseeley@island.net (Geoff Seeley) Subject: MR2 MkII: The new suspension is installed... (2/2) (continued) Notes and hints: 1. Be careful when compressing the springs. Luckily I didn't have any problems thanks to Patrick Robert's good set of hook compressors but I was still plenty worried while doing it. Additionally, I tied some rope to the spring coils (just in case) and kept my fingers and head out of the way of potential flying parts. 2. Make sure you have a big honkin' pipe wrench for the gland nut. The one I have is 16" long and adjusts up to 4 1/4" and this JUST gave me enough leverage (two hands, one foot!) to loosen the fronts. 3. Air tools are nice to have :) (But not required) Make sure you have a breaker bar and up to 19mm socket (for the hub to strut bolts). The strut bar nut is 22mm if you do the bushings. 4. I slotted the brake hose holders with a Dremel tool so I didn't have to remove the caliper and bleed the brakes. Remove the clips, cut a slot as big as the smallest part of the metal connector and there will be enough play in the hose to allow it to be pulled up and out of the holder. You'll still have to flip up the rear calipers to get the hub-to-strut bolts out of the lower position. Remember to TWIST the pistion clockwise to get the caliper back on. (Gotta get that SST! :) 5. I just used some Mobil-1 10w-30 synthetic oil around the struts as a heat transfer agent. The Tokico instructions say you can use any light oil. Questions: 1. What settings are good for the street with the Tokicos? 2. I had it aligned to the following specs: (as close as they could get) Current Setting Current Wanted ------- ------- ------- ------ LF: -1.28 deg Camber RF: -1.27 deg -1.2 deg LF: 2.83 deg Castor RF: 2.59 deg 3.0 deg LF: -0.03" Toe RF: -0.02" (-0.05" total) 1/16 to 1/8 toeout LR: -1.46 deg Camber RF: -1.52 deg -1.5 deg LR: 0.09" Toe RF: 0.10" (0.19" total) 1/16 to 1/8 toein Any comments on this? It seems ok so far... I assume that "toe out" is negative and "toe in" is positive as this is what I asked for... 3. What the hell do I do with the old parts? :) Geoff '91t, 226,450km ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 22:50:40 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: MR2 aeroware and scanners two things: #1) ive have the opportunity to pick up the aeroware side scoops for $90. this is the only cosmetic enhancement i like to date. is this a good price? the whole kit is available too but im not into that, just the side vents. the guy does not have the hardware for it though. wada-u-tink? #2) i was at radio shack and they have the newest model scanner on sale. it has 300 channels, 800mhz, and "trunk lock?" is this a good radio ? what is this "trunk" thingy, and is the 800mhz the "new gotta have" scanner? wada-u-tink troy p.? you are the resident communications man? thanx- terry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 98 10:17:00 UCT From: "Formesyn, Ben, FORMESBC" Subject: RE: MR2 MKII : Summary of noises over bumps >From: Keith6566 >I have been told not to use WD-40 or any other lubricant containing solvents which may damage the rubber bushings but no one has said what lubricant would be appropriate. Also will I need to remove the bushings to lubricate them of can it be done on the car. Thanks again Assuming the bushings are plastic/ rubber, you will need a silicone based lubricant for them, and I'd imagine you would have to remove them to lubricate them properly. I don't know if others would agree, but how about using Armour-All as a quick fix? It's suitable for use on plastic and would probably soak inside the bushing to lubricate it without needing disassembling. Ben. '91 Red, 3S-FE 90k miles ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 23:17:13 +1000 From: Robin San Subject: Re: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, how much Hp to expect using standard computer > When I installed the 272º cams in my 1988 Levin, the only thing I had to > do was adjust the idle..turned it up a bit from the stock position and no > problems. Hi Stephen Im not too sure, why it didnt work on the 100/98 setting, everything seems to be correct, Gary could be right, maybe I do have too much fuel going thru. But I thought, till I can get a dyno and a exhaust sniffer done, it would be safer to run richer than leaner. Is it possible for the engine to lean out too much by just changing the cams, Ive been told many times that the MAF accomodates for the extra air, but I thought Id just be careful. You got the small port 4AGE non TVIS right? Maybe that explains why you can run those 272s at 100/100. When I did it, it just felt that there was nothing till 6000rpm, big ports maybe? I have it now at 104/106 and it feels pretty good, at least good enough for the track on Sunday. Thanks for the help Robin San 89 MK1 NA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 23:25:56 +1000 From: Robin San Subject: MR2 Re: MK1: TRD 272 cams, how much Hp to expect using standard computer Hi Gary Thanks for the help, Im runing 104/106 now and it feels pretty good. I think there should be still a bit more grunt left. If I have this correct, to check if my mixture is right, the voltage from the sensor should be about 0.7V? and less and its too lean any more and its too rich? Is this correct? Shoud I disregard anything I can observe from the spark plugs? Thanks I really appreciate all your help so far, I think its almost there. Robin San 89 MK1 NA > In summary. Get an O2 meter bar graph display. Lean it back one click at a > time until it comes off of the top. I bet it will wake up. Then play with the > cam timing until you like the power band, but remember that the cam will also > through off the distributor timing so set it to the book after each cam timing > change. Always watch the O2 display to be sure you don't let it go lean, but > over rich will just cost power and waste fuel. If you were running high boost, > then you need some extra fuel to cool the combustion, but normally aspirated, > take it just above stoiciometric. It should be an O2 volts around .7 under > full power. if it ever dips below .6 then add just one click and try again. > Once the top end is right, then you may need to adjust the bypass screw to get > the idle perfect. > > Gary M. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 07:38:19 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: MR2 Lubricants to use for swaybar bushings (or any other rubber) The type of lubricant to be used for the sway bar bushings (or any other rubber items) should be a SILICONE-based lubricant. Anything with a petroleum base will eventually disintigrate rubber or plastic products. Petroleum-based products actually act as solvents for these parts. Silicone products do not. Stay away from any product that says "contains petroleum distillates". - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:03:21 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: MR2-American vs. Japanese car quality One of the statements posted with regard to this quality thing was... "I still respect them, just not as much. When thinking about all the time and thought that it takes to make a modern automobile with every little thing working together, it still amazes me. A big pet peeve of domestic vs fogien is simply the steering feel. I find the numbness of todays domestics maddeding vs the forgien competion. The Mr2 has so much better road feel and can be driven down a road straight without the need to make hundreds of minor corrections through a numb steering wheel." Here, I have to stick up for American cars -- Yes, that's right, ME - Sticking up for American cars! What I mean is that the "numb steering" feel of American cars is not NEARLY as bad as it used to be. Jeez, I have recently driven one of the NUMBEST American Luxo-barges in existance (the Lincoln Town Car) and even THAT car has much more steering feel and handling ability than the typical Chevy/Ford/Chrysler of 25 years ago. American cars, as bad as I feel about them, have come a long way in the past 30 years. Of course, they HAD to, as most of the factories were going broke due to their customers purchasing foreign cars! You can drive a typical American compact car today, and it will almost "feel" like a typical Japanese car. Of course, it will only do that for about a year or so, you know, when things start falling off or breaking. European cars still have better sport-like feel as far as steering and suspension goes (I'm talking about normal passenger cars here, not sports cars) In other words, a Volkswagen, low-end Audi, or a "lowly" 300-series BMW will still feel more like a sports car than a Corolla or an Impreza. And let's be realistic -- you can't compare the "road feel" of an MR2 to typical American sedans or coupes; be realistic! The only thing you can possibly HOPE to compare a specifically designed for sport, mid-engined performance car to might be the Fiero, and we don't have to say too much about THAT! (Hey, the LAST year of the Fiero's weren't supposed to be that bad, or so I've read - but that's so TYPICAL G.M. - They finally get a design right, then discontinue the thing! Forget the Fiero thing; what I mean is that you can't compare a special design like the MR2 to non-specific 4 - 6 passenger barges, no matter who makes them, no matter what price they sell for. - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 08:41:41 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: MR2 Atlantic City Meet, Sunday, Jan 4, 1998 The weather is supposed to be relatively warm, with temperatures up in the 50's! There is a "chance of showers", and I think we can live with that; if you don't agree, please let me know. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE PLANNING ON ATTENDING! Here is a re-post of the itinerary... 1) Caravan down to A.C. with other MR2's going your way. Meet them halfway or whatever to make your drive to A.C. more enjoyable. Use the Digest to find out who's going your way. 2) 10:30 - 11:30 AM Meet just past The Flagship Hotel/Condo, which is in the Inlet area of Atlantic City. Directions - Once inside of A.C., take Atlantic Ave. (a major north/south street just 2 blocks from the Boardwalk) all the way up to the northern extreme (this means that the Atlantic Ocean is on your right driving up Atlantic Ave., for all you "directionally-challenged drivers". Follow Atlantic Ave. to the end where it bears around to the left. Now the inlet is alongside your right. You can see The Flagship Hotel/Condo about 5 blocks away from it as you are driving up Atlantic Avenue. There is an area to pull over just after the hotel and before the iron framework of a building that you will see on the right (this was the old "Hackney's Restaurant"). The end of the Boardwalk is on your right. This area is no longer a bad area. Just look for the other MR2's. 11:30 AM Drive down Pacific Avenue past all the casinos and all of the modern Atlantic City "action", head down through the southern part of A.C. and do a sight-seeing drive through Margate and Ventnor. Drive through an interesting section of primo real estate in Longport and wind up at "The Point", the southenmost tip of the island. There is another parking area there. Get out of the cars and enjoy the scenery. 1:00 PM Head back up to Atlantic City for lunch @ the best submarine/hoagie/zeppelin joint in the world called "White House Subs", which I heartily recommend. It is a world-famous place. There is a free parking lot across the street, and interestingly enough, the lot is owned by Bob Guccione (of Penthouse fame). 2:30 PM AT this point, we can park at a casino hotel and take a walk on the Boardwalk (maybe to the new Steel Pier), or if you want a quieter casino, go to Harrah's in the Marina district. Some of us aren't gamblers, so going to a Boardwalk casino might be best. Parking at all the A.C. casinos is $2.00 for the entire day, and that is actually a city fee, so you are covered at all the casinos if you keep your receipt. Please get in touch and let me know if you are coming. See you there this Sunday, January 4th! - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:14:36 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 Long production run on those Fire-o's > at the bottom it reads "Pontiac Fiero: > 1884-1988 Fischer Body, Flint, Michigan" Wow, that makes it the first automobile produced in America. I had no idea that they built these things for 104 years!!! :) So, did the workers at least get GT models? David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/RMS S.P/RMS MBC 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:09:57 EST From: Mr2toy726 Subject: MR2 New member intro./MKII NA modifications? Hi all. I am pretty new to the MR2 world, I bought a 91 emerald green MR2 a couple of days ago. So far I love the car. It does have a couple of minor flaws, however: 1. The CD player doesn't have any bass. Apparently the car oroginally came with just the mid-level tape deck with 6 speakers, no CD, no anti-theft, no sub. But then someone added a Toyota CD player to the car. The radio and cassette sound great, but CD's play at a much lower level and have no bass. Any ideas? It sounds like it may be some sort of connection problem between the tape/radio deck and the CD deck. Is it possible for the CD player to be connected to the tape/radio deck, but not be connected to the power amp? 2. The passenger side door speaker buzzes pretty bad. Any recommendations on what speakersto replace them/it with? Is it difficult to get the door off and replace the speaker? 3. What can I do to get more power out of the 5SFE motor? I have been searching the net for mods, but everything I find is for a turbo MR2. I would have bought a turbo, but the insurance was much, much higher. So far my only plan for modifications is a good tune up, and replacing the complicated air filter assembly with a straighter pipe and a K&N cone type air filter, I plan to put the K&N as close to the driver side air intake as possible. (Is this wise? and will I see much more power?) What else casn I do? Obviously aftermarket exhaust, but the car is already pretty loud.... How much power can a stock 2.2 engine take? Are there any aftermarket turbo kits or superchargers available? What about nitrous oxide? Thanks in advance. Oh, BTW my nabe is Aaron, I live in Denton, TX (Just north of Dallas), I am 23, engaged, and I work as a market rep for BOSE (the speaker company). My last car was a 350 hp 85 Corvette with a 406 and just about every bolt on part made for GM TPI motors. I am still fond of Vettes, but the quality of the Toyota is really winning me over..... Thanks, Aaron 91 no turbo :( ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 09:17:52 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 SC for sale....? > 1985 Silver MR2 Supercharged - Ad placed Monday, December 29, 1997 EST > > VIN: JT2AW15CX FOO15912 > Features: 5 speed, A/C, Alarm > Modifications: performance engine > Mileage: 157,000 Miles > Asking Price: $500.00 > Comments: Must sell ASAP.....going away to school > Contact: Tammi Taylor - Apple Valley, CA USA > Email: gfwitt@mscomm.com > Phone Number: 760-240-4422 Now, why isn't anyone within a hundred miles of ME selling an MR2 at a good price?? Even if it doesn't have an SC.....$500 is cheap! No one down here is wrecking them either. I want a parts car, dammit! argh. David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/RMS S.P/RMS MBC 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #48