mr2-digest Thursday, January 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 045 MR2 MK1: Gtec times and hp MR2 MKII questions MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, how much Hp to expect using standard computer Re: MR2 MKII electrical failure MR2 Re: tow vehicles MR2 Squeal Re: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, how much Hp to expect using standard computer Re: MR2 5th gear popping out MR2 toohandsometerryinautox MR2 MKII shifting probs MR2 MKII : Summary of noises over bumps Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt change Re: MR2 toohandsometerryinautox Re: MR2 MKII shifting probs MR2 Re: MKII questions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 03:09:07 +1000 From: Robin San Subject: MR2 MK1: Gtec times and hp Hi guys Just wondering, what kinda times are people getting in their MK1 NA MR2s with the GTEC? I just did a few runs tonight and thought that it was a bit slow, but the car wasnt running 100%. I got 97 Hp(input weight at 1123kg), 400M in about 17.5 and 0-100 in 9.5secs (my GTEC is metric). And all this with TRD 272 cams...guess I still have a bit of tuning to do, this 150hp still hasnt materialised yet!!! What is the aproximate loss of Hp in the drive train, I was told that it was about 15%??? Thanks for any feedback Seeya Robin San 89 MK1 NA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:15:11 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 MKII questions > Also, the 96+ up are 245 yes/no??? Yes > 2) What is it that is different on the japan models that give the extra > hp? Ceramic Bearing Turbo and ECU upgrade. The AFM is also a little different. > assumption 3SGTE - T = 3SGE). Therefore, can the stock ct-26 turbo be > added to this engine relatively easy? That's what I've been thinking....if you attempt the swap, hold out for a VV-Ti 3S-GE! I'm really curious what a blown VV-Ti would produce.... > 4) How hard would it be and what problems would I face in swapping a 91/92 > turbo's engine with a japanese spec 3sgte engine? Should be relatively straight forward, if you can get your hands on the engine. I'd probably swap the ECU also....just in case. > 5) Will 93 seats fit in a 91/92 or are they different? don't think they are different.... > 6) 91/92 White MR2's with leather interior always have black interiors, > correct? 93's however can have black/blue/or beige. Blue was only available with Cloth. Beige (ivory, according to Toyota, although It's a little dark for ivory in my book) came as a two tone option only on certain color cars (in 93, it was black, white, red, turquoise). > Find a 91/92 Turbo and pump it up to around 250-300 hp. I am thinking that > a neat project might be to attempt to swap in the Japan Spec 3sGTE. I > haven't heard of anyone doing this so I thought maybe I could give it a > try. I would like to here what other's think though. Anyone's suggestions > will be both considered and appreciated. While it's a neat idea, and I'd be last to rain on a parade after the whole "blowing a 5S-FE" debate, for the cost of procuring a Japan spec engine, you could have the US engine in that 91/92 turbo up to around 250 HP (actually a lot higher, since you can see 250HP at the crank with a boost controller and intercooler upgrade). If you're willing to throw $3000 at a 3S-GTE.....you can do TONS. Have fun. David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/RMS S.P/RMS MBC 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 03:26:54 +1000 From: Robin San Subject: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, how much Hp to expect using standard computer Hi guys As some of you may know Ive been struggling with my TRD 272 cams to get the most hp from them. Ive tried various cam timing setups with the standard computer and the MAF mod with 5 tooth advance; 98/100 was a bit too wild and didnt do much below 6000rpm, didnt idle at all. 105/107 was perhapse the best so far good midrange boost and top end 114Intake/105exhaust was the standard cam timing felt a little stronger than standard but ran out of breath after 6000rpm, idled just like standard. I was told that the TRD 272 cams are good for 150hp, what mods are required for that kinda power? I remember Dave A had about 140hp with; Cams, porting, pistons, hi compression (I dunno what else Dave?) Im convinced that Im no where near 150hp, am I doing something wrong? I would say that there would be a 10hp increase tops, what is the best Hp I could hope for with the standard computer? Thanks for any help guys, I really appreciate it. Robin San 89 Mk1 NA MR2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:50:14 -0600 From: "Andrew P. Tasi" Subject: Re: MR2 MKII electrical failure Go for the cheap fix first. Make sure your battery connections are clean and tight. Good luck and happy new year, Andrew P. Tasi Black '88 MR2 T-top - -----Original Message----- >Hi, folks! > >I've been a proud '93 MKII NA owner for about three months now, but I've >had a VERY mysterious problem with which hopefully you can help. > >On two occasions, I have hopped in the car, put the key into the ignition, >turned, and .... blackness suddenly envelopes me. Complete electrical >shutdown. After that, no courtesy lights, no dash lights, no warning >chimes, no nothing. Everything is completely normal up until the instant >of the failure, and it is again completely normal after I get a jump from >a kind-hearted passerby. No amount of waiting, cursing, or asking the >car nicely will bring it back. > >After connecting the battery for the jump, everything turns back on (but >the clock and radio memories are reset) in a snap. I don't even need to >keep the jump connected for more than a second. I can even disconnect >it before starting the car. [Snip!] >----- >Joseph F. Musmanno >Atlantic Aerospace Electronics Corp. joe@aaec.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 12:43:51 EST From: Spinnetti Subject: MR2 Re: tow vehicles In a message dated 1/1/98 5:29:58 PM, you wrote: >Another vehicle I'm considering is an Astro van. It has a lot more room >inside than any of the SUVs, especially if you get the extended version, >and the Vortec V6 gives V8 power and torque with V6 economy. AWD was >also available on them. I've heard they tow pretty well, too. The big >advantage of a van is that I could sleep in it comfortably if I wanted >to. The disadvantage of the Astro is the GM crap quality, and they >don't have the comfort or ride of the SUVs. Plus, they're ugly. I've been down all these roads... The Astro just about broke me, but was a perfect size, capacity etc.. Too bad GM built it.... I put $3000 in 1/ 1/2 years in repairs.... I also had a Chevy car hauler, which was ok, but no room in the cab, was too long, and used commercial type tires (a pain to fix/change a flat). I also had a Ford F150 extended cab, which was fine, but unwieldly and not what I wanted to have to drive every day (for the winter vehicle). I ended right where I started. A '91 4WD 4Runner SR5 V-6 with 31" tires and 4.88 gears. It gets off the line quickly, has no problem towing my trailer, race car, and all my spares/race gear, gets toleralble mileage, and is a nice daily driver (especially in the winter)..... You can get these fairly cheap, and they don't need a SC to tow... (anybody want mine so I can buy a new one???) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 12:07:23 -0600 From: R Knutson Subject: MR2 Squeal This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------1857B4338D82EF7A6EBAEF28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have a '93 MR2, non-turbo with 100,000 miles. When starting, I sometimes experience a squeal (like a loose belt) which will usually go away with engine acceleration. I live in Minnesota and the problem seems worse with cold and is getting worse. The belts have been checked by Toyota mechanics (but the squeal refused to occur) and pronounced OK. Any ideas, experiences, suggestions? thanks for any help, roger knuts026@tc.umn.edu - --------------1857B4338D82EF7A6EBAEF28 Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Roger Knutson Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Roger Knutson n: Knutson;Roger email;internet: knuts026@tc.umn.edu note: Systems Staff x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard - --------------1857B4338D82EF7A6EBAEF28-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 13:36:46 -0500 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, how much Hp to expect using standard computer At 03:26 AM 1/2/98 +1000, Robin San wrote: >Hi guys > >As some of you may know Ive been struggling with my TRD 272 cams to get >the most hp from them. Ive tried various cam timing setups with the >standard computer and the MAF mod with 5 tooth advance; > >98/100 was a bit too wild and didnt do much below 6000rpm, didnt idle at >all. > >105/107 was perhapse the best so far good midrange boost and top end > >114Intake/105exhaust was the standard cam timing felt a little stronger >than standard but ran out of breath after 6000rpm, idled just like >standard. > >I was told that the TRD 272 cams are good for 150hp, what mods are >required for that kinda power? I remember Dave A had about 140hp with; >Cams, porting, pistons, hi compression (I dunno what else Dave?) Im >convinced that Im no where near 150hp, am I doing something wrong? I >would say that there would be a 10hp increase tops, what is the best Hp >I could hope for with the standard computer? > >Thanks for any help guys, I really appreciate it. >Robin San >89 Mk1 NA MR2 Hello Robin, Your cam timing problem perplex's me. For the record Intake timing is ATDC, Exhaust timing is BTDC. I have seen people make simple mistakes when timing cams, including putting the wheel on 180º out of phase....not saying thats what you are doing, but I have never had a problem with cams that are timed to TRD specs. When I installed the 272º cams in my 1988 Levin, the only thing I had to do was adjust the idle..turned it up a bit from the stock position and no problems. A 10 hp increase is all HKS claims for just the cams, so in that regard you are right on track. I just can't figure out why your cams won't work properly at the correct timing. I hope others will be able to help you on this. Happy New Year. Stephen Gunter,1990 Levin, icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the Toyota Mods WebRing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:53:17 EST From: Ltraviolnc Subject: Re: MR2 5th gear popping out In a message dated 97-12-31 18:00:11 EST, SportRidr@Aol.com writes: > It might also be the sychronizer, a $30.00 part, but labor adds about $600.00 Wrong. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:08:58 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 toohandsometerryinautox >We shall see Terry at Topeka Kansas (SCCA finals) one of these years. I >have already warned the people in Kansas. 8) Good! that way I can meet him and wipe the course with him in one day :P The gauntlet is down.... David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/RMS S.P/RMS MBC 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:10:12 -0600 From: "Chris King" Subject: MR2 MKII shifting probs Having some probs with my shifter. For one thing I have the all too common bad synchros and it has been getting harder and harder to shift. Seems to me like the temperature affects this a lot more than I would have thought - - ie ok when it's warm; bad when it's cold. I am aware of the fact that changing the trans fluid would help, but I am trying to hold off until I do the timing belt too so I can have it all done at once (I just hit 60,000 so that will be soon!). Now for the real problem though. Since I got the car, I have had a terrible time getting it into fifth. If I didn't "hook" the thing and hard, it would just pop out everytime. In addition to this, my shfter appears to shift too far up when going into 1st, 3rd, and 5th. It makes a clicking noise when I go into any of these gears because the shifter is actually hitting the plastic that holds the base of the shift boot. In fact, I had to replace the boot because it had ripped the boot all along the top where it rubs. So what exactly is the problem and what kind of time and cost are we talking to fix it. I almost think the thing has been bent because of the way I have to shift into 5th. Any input on the problem with 5th or the problem with the shifter going to far is greatly appreciated. Chris K. 91 NA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:11:47 EST From: Keith6566 Subject: MR2 MKII : Summary of noises over bumps I have received several responses to my problem of crunching sounds over bumps in my 1991 MKII NA. Thanks to everyone who has responded. The general consensus seems to be that the sway bar bushings need lubrication or replacement. It is only 28 degrees here in Lexington, KY today and I don't have a garage so I won't try the repair yet but if anyone else that has experienced the same problem and fixed it could tell me what kind of lubricant to use I would appreciate it very much. I have been told not to use WD-40 or any other lubricant containing solvents which may damage the rubber bushings but no one has said what lubricant would be appropriate. Also will I need to remove the bushings to lubricate them of can it be done on the car. Thanks again Keith 1991 MKII NA Aquamarine-Pearl T-tops, 3-in1 stereo, recently tinted windows ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:24:11 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A > We shall see Terry at Topeka Kansas (SCCA finals) one of these years. I > have already warned the people in Kansas. 8) great, nothing like expectations to uphold. > I never get sore from skiing. I know the secret is that I never turn. 8) same here, 'cept i never ski. > The MR2 does have a tendency (I have been told) to boil the stock brake > fluid, even in autox. For this reason, a lot of drivers replace the > fluid with Redline or Motul. this is very interesting, i did not realize that the braking system generated enough heat to do this at an autox (thats a short amount of time on the brakes.) > > > As for Randy's skills behind the wheel in autox, indeed, he has done > > > quite well. Would he actually gain anything from ABS? All I can say is > > > that it probably wouldn't hurt to have it. god lets hope not...oh, right... hes in a different class, CS... > Yeah, just don't bring up the thread about "better brakes" and stopping > ability. 8) I would have to get all medieval on someone. 8) ill go along with this ; ) "...get medieval on your ass..." Plulp Fiction; great line, great movie. pumpin 150 octane today (weather) paying $1.72 a gal. for this weather - terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 14:13:56 EST From: Conti64542 Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt change In a message dated 97-12-29 21:48:37 EST, you write: > >If the timing belt is old it has a risk of breaking, if it does, than you are > >screwed! What happens is, you will be driving along at usually higher > speeds, and it will suddenly break! Actually, timing BELTS tend to break under load. This usually means when you start the engine and accellerate from a start. So, do you want to be unable to move as you are crossing a couple of lanes of oncoming traffic? Or other similar situation? My take: you will need to change it eventually. If you do it now, you don't have the opportunity to encounter this kind of event. And if you do it when you want to schedule it, you don't have the hassle of "unscheduled" work. - -Renni ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:27:52 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: Re: MR2 toohandsometerryinautox > >We shall see Terry at Topeka Kansas (SCCA finals) one of these years. I > >have already warned the people in Kansas. 8) > > Good! that way I can meet him and wipe the course with him in > one day :P > > The gauntlet is down.... fire...cool. terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:33:37 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: Re: MR2 MKII shifting probs > Having some probs with my shifter. For one thing I have the all too common > bad synchros and it has been getting harder and harder to shift. Seems to > me like the temperature affects this a lot more than I would have thought > - ie ok when it's warm; bad when it's cold. i dont hav eth esyncro problem...yet. i have found th esame thing (hot/cold) >. In addition to this, my > shfter appears to shift too far up when going into 1st, 3rd, and 5th. It > makes a clicking noise when I go into any of these gears because the > shifter is actually hitting the plastic that holds the base of the shift > boot. In fact, I had to replace the boot because it had ripped the boot > all along the top where it rubs. very interesting...now youve got me thinking bout my shifter...gotta go look at it...let me knfow what becomes of this shifter thingy of yours please. >So what exactly is the problem and what > kind of time and cost are we talking to fix it. problem: donno; fix: kens shift boot? heard some nice things bout his boot and the propensity to fondle. terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 13:33:44 -0600 From: "Chris King" Subject: MR2 Re: MKII questions > > 2) What is it that is different on the japan models that give the extra hp? > Ceramic Bearing Turbo and ECU upgrade. The AFM is also a little different. I remember reading somewhere that Toyota improved the stock intercooler but can't find the article anymore. Can anyone verify this? > Blue was only available with Cloth. Beige (ivory, according to Toyota, For some reason, I thought I had seen a few white 93 turbo's w/ blue leather. Does any year have blue leather as an option? > While it's a neat idea, and I'd be last to rain on a parade after the whole > "blowing a 5S-FE" debate, for the cost of procuring a Japan spec engine, > you could have the US engine in that 91/92 turbo up to around 250 HP > (actually a lot higher, since you can see 250HP at the crank with a boost > controller and intercooler upgrade). If you're willing to throw $3000 at a > 3S-GTE.....you can do TONS. Obviously the 214 hp engine would be a waste but if you could get the 250 version and only spend in the neighborhood of $2000-3000 this seems it might be cost effective. WHy you ask? Here is how I figured. Spend $8000 or so on the 91 Turbo. Find one with good body but relatively high miles. Maybe say 70-100k. " 2000-3000 for the engine and do the swap yourself. Everything indicates it should be straight forward. 1000 for exhaust, filter, turbo timer, etc. THis brings the total to maybe $11,000-12,000 for the car. Estimated, hp would probably be in the neighborhood of 300 and you have an engine with lower miles (more than likely) and a warranty. On top of that you could probably part with the stock 3sgte, and get a decent amount for it so this lowers the price further. Now, (and those of you who browse the classifieds regularly can attest to this), you will find a fair amount of people trying to sell a completely stock 91-92 with 70 to as high as 130 k miles for this same price. Seems then, like this would be quite cost effective. I especially like the fact that the engine (and once again I say more than likely assumning you find the right one) should now have a warranty and low miles. Now, the possible problems I forsee with all this: - - Biggest prob is by far finding one of these engines - - Possibility that you do need a new ecu and ic meaning more money being spent - - Any compatibility issues that no one has thus far picked up on - - Also, spending the time to actually do the whole thing, could turn out to be a big job IMO So there is my thinking. I appreciate the first wave of comments. Hoping to get more now... Chris K. 91 NA ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #45