mr2-digest Thursday, January 1 1998 Volume 02 : Number 044 Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A MR2 silver state classic info #1 MR2 silver state classic info #2 MR2 silver state classic SORRY! Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A MR2 Briiiiiiiing noise Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A MR2 mkII manual trans oil change Re: MR2 mkII manual trans oil change [none] Re: MR2 Japanese MKII Turbo's/98 Project MR2 Re: '91-94 ABS Changes Re: Tow Vehicles (not MR2 specific) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:39:19 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A > I have found the 93+ ABS seems to be better than the 91/92 system. i have a 92turbo with abs and have come to the same conclusion > don't know if there are different parts to it or if it's just different > biasing, but it seems to work better and stop faster. work better ? donno. stop faster? yep. > Of course it could > be just the bigger rotors too. this was my conclusion. > It seems to me that on my 93 when I slam > the brakes hard enough to invoke the ABS it actually takes it to the > threshold of lock-up, and I can actually hear brief little chirps from > the tires. yep does this on my 92 also. >On the 91/92 models I've driven the ABS seems to activate > sooner and intervenes well before the lock-up threshold. Can ayone > verify if there is a difference in the parts? > this would be a cool thing to know. > As for the effectiveness of the ABS in Autox, I highly doubt that I > could ever do a better job of biasing then the ABS system. I use it very > frequently in Autox, staying on the throttle to the last possible moment > and then braking hard just before the turn. I have grown to rely on it > extensively, and consider it a huge asset. I use it so much in fact, > that at the last autox practice where I had an opportunity to do several > runs successively (about 6 in just 20 mins) I could smell the brake > fluid, probably boiled it. im not that experienced at autox...yet. boiling fluid? motul 600. ran the car HARD at willows raceway in the middle of the desert in the middle of the summer ( 100+) on the breaks HARD. no fade and no smelling of pads or fluid. many others were having to either cool the car, the brakes or both. many were circling on the skid pad. i pulled over once (for a second) to detox from adrenalin. otherwise 1.25 hours of straight forward, no BS, driving and braking. > As for Randy's skills behind the wheel in autox, indeed, he has done > quite well. Would he actually gain anything from ABS? All I can say is > that it probably wouldn't hurt to have it. funny, a little over a year ago we had the same thread about abs and how it sucked and folks were gonna disconnect it (along with the airbags) funny how trends change. btw- i was waiting for randy to give us the magic solution for us lsd depraved 2'sters but he must be deleting my posts on sight (swell guy, but smart) anyway...he suggests putting a swaybar on the front only. talk to him for details. terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:46:40 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: MR2 silver state classic info #1 >genteeeeelfolks, > >the ssc is coming up (actually its th enevada open road which is >basically th esame thing). i just got off the phone with larry hall >(he won 1st in the 95mph bracket in a mki w/127k) he has since sold >the 2 and will run this spring in a...GET THIS!... in a chevy S10 . >he is going to strech it 3 ft and drop in a jag. V12 and compete in >the 145+ class! sounds like a crazy country boy to me! it will be mid >engine too...the V12 will set between the cab and the bed...WOW! now >thats crazy.he also mentioned to me that espn or speedvision is >suposed to run a feature on this past event in dec-january he is >checking into it. > >anyway...im planning on running this. pete, austin, >patrick mention their interest also... any supra takers? > >you can get info packages from the address below, larry is gonna send >me one. there is also the "la carrera" in the fall. this is an >international race in baja mex which sounds interesting. > >lets get ready it wil be here before you know it- > >terryiscrazywiththethoughtofopenroadsandopenthrottles > >______________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:46:40 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: MR2 silver state classic info #2 > > >Thank you for your interest in the Silver State Classic Challenge >series of Open Road Events. > >The dates for our events in 1998 are as follows: > >Nevada Open Road Challenge...................April 30 - May 3 >La Carrera Classica (Ensenada Mexico).....July 23 - 25 >Silver State Classic Challenge....................September 17 - 20 > >The Nevada Open Road Challenge and the Silver State Classic Challenge >events are both run on State Route #318 in East-Central Nevada from the >Towns of Lund to Hiko. The course is 90 miles in length, all on a state >maintained public highway, with straight-aways up to 11 miles in length. >The Nevada Department of Transportation closes the roadway to normal >traffic for the duration of these events. These events are sanctioned and >insured by the American IndyCar Series. > > THERE IS NO SPEED LIMIT! > >Anyone can enter this most unique automotive event who is at least 18 years >of age with a valid driver's license and who brings a roadworthy 4 wheeled >vehicle. You pick the speed that you would like to average from 95 mph up >to 130 mph. If you have entered this event previously, or if you have a >recognized relevant competition driving license, you may select an average >speed up to 165 mph. There is even an unlimited class where speeds are in >excess of 220 mph for the most experienced drivers! > >There are special competition driving classes in Las Vegas on Thursday >before the event as well as practice and qualifying at Las Vegas Motor >Speedway. All first time drivers are treated to special attention and >instruction throughout the weekend to ensure that they enjoy everything >these events have to offer. > >After four days of driving, receptions, a parade, a car show, and the >fastest event held on a public highway in this country, there is the awards >banquet at the Showboat Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas. 1st, 2nd & 3rd place >trophies are awarded in each speed bracket plus many other awards such as >Rookie of the Event. > >These events are four days of action packed fun, the most fun you can have >in a car with your clothes on. > > IF YOU HAVE NOT ALREADY DONE SO, PLEASE PROVIDE US WITH > YOUR SNAIL-MAIL ADDRESS AND TELEPHONE NUMBER SO THAT > WE CAN SEND YOU FURTHER INFORMATION AND AN ENTRY FORM! > >For more information, check out our web site: http://www.phenry.com/sscc/ > >To get a video of our 1994 event as aired on ESPN2 go to > > > >Silver State Classic Challenge, Inc. >P.O. Box 420 >Ely, Nevada 89301 >702-289-6267 >E-Mail us at: phenry@phenry.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:52:47 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: MR2 silver state classic SORRY! sorry for posting the info again. i was informed by the list admin that it bounced and should shorten it. so i broke it up into 2 posts. upon further reading of mail i found that it went through...sorry for the waste of....your time! terry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:53:57 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A TerrySaltzman@home.com wrote: > im not that experienced at autox...yet. We shall see Terry at Topeka Kansas (SCCA finals) one of these years. I have already warned the people in Kansas. 8) > boiling fluid? motul 600. ran > the car HARD at willows raceway in the middle of the desert in the > middle of the summer ( 100+) on the breaks HARD. no fade and no > smelling of pads or fluid. many others were having to either cool the > car, the brakes or both. many were circling on the skid pad. i pulled > over once (for a second) to detox from adrenalin. otherwise 1.25 > hours of straight forward, no BS, driving and braking. I never get sore from skiing. I know the secret is that I never turn. 8) The MR2 does have a tendency (I have been told) to boil the stock brake fluid, even in autox. For this reason, a lot of drivers replace the fluid with Redline or Motul. > > > > As for Randy's skills behind the wheel in autox, indeed, he has done > > quite well. Would he actually gain anything from ABS? All I can say is > > that it probably wouldn't hurt to have it. > > funny, a little over a year ago we had the same thread about abs and > how it sucked and folks were gonna disconnect it (along with the > airbags) funny how trends change. Yeah, just don't bring up the thread about "better brakes" and stopping ability. 8) I would have to get all medieval on someone. 8) > > btw- i was waiting for randy to give us the magic solution for us lsd > depraved 2'sters but he must be deleting my posts on sight (swell > guy, but smart) Hey...what else are e-mail filters for? 8) anyway...he suggests putting a swaybar on the front > only. talk to him for details. Sure. That is the fix for not having am LSD in the 91/92 car. The chassis flex as you exit corners seems to enable the car to unweight the rear inside tire. This of course causes the tire to generate smoke and makes BFG more dollars, but you go no faster. Putting a fatter front sway bar removes the chassis flex and both rear tires stay planted as you power out of corners. The problem with this is, that if you put on too much bar, you greatly increase the front end understeer (plow) so that the low speed turns may be difficult. YMMV. You can fix some of this extra understeer with fatter tires (225s), shock settings, and alignment, and driving technique. randy chase *must reset my mail filters* 8) '91 Mr2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 19:21:30 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 Briiiiiiiing noise > steadier from 28000 to 40000 RPM I think we found the winner in the "let's get rid of the 5S-FE for a more powerful alternative" battle. Whaddaya got in there that will turn 28K-40K RPM? Bell JetRanger turbine? Allison T-56? GE F-400? Inquiring minds want to know..... Disclaimer: tongue planted firmly in cheek while typing above message. David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/RMS S.P/RMS MBC 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:56:54 -0500 From: "Tommy Guttmann" Subject: Re: MR2 ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A Randy Chase wrote: > Phil Cutajar wrote: > > > > I better be careful about how I word this... NO FLAMES PLEASE! > > > > I have found the 93+ ABS seems to be better than the 91/92 system. I > > don't know if there are different parts to it or if it's just different > > biasing, but it seems to work better and stop faster. Of course it could > > be just the bigger rotors too. It seems to me that on my 93 when I slam > > the brakes hard enough to invoke the ABS it actually takes it to the > > threshold of lock-up, and I can actually hear brief little chirps from > > the tires. On the 91/92 models I've driven the ABS seems to activate > > sooner and intervenes well before the lock-up threshold. Can anyone > > verify if there is a difference in the parts? > > Interesting point Phil. Brad? > > > As for the effectiveness of the ABS in Autox, I highly doubt that I > > could ever do a better job of biasing then the ABS system. I use it very > > frequently in Autox, staying on the throttle to the last possible moment > > and then braking hard just before the turn. I have grown to rely on it > > extensively, and consider it a huge asset. I use it so much in fact, > > that at the last autox practice where I had an opportunity to do several > > runs successively (about 6 in just 20 mins) I could smell the brake > > fluid, probably boiled it. > > As good as any driver is, I don't react as fast as the computer does, if > it works correctly. Big If. No matter what, it would save on tires from > when I do the occasional lock up. > > > As for Randy's skills behind the wheel in autox, indeed, he has done > > quite well. Would he actually gain anything from ABS? All I can say is > > that it probably wouldn't hurt to have it. > > That's the idea. I need every little thing I can get to beat the evil > forces out of Colorado. 8) Of course I am speaking of Rich Fletcher and > his Porsche. > > Eric...do you have ABS? I know Kevin doesn't. Interesting...also the stuff about the "different" ABS on early/late Mk11s... FWIW, while it's not AutoX, I constantly hear some of the Porsche guys I sometimes do track days with (no comments please!) whining about wanting to have Porsche's "racing ABS", because the one on regular production 911s seems to intervene too early. Apparently, Porsche only offers this to genuine race teams... Their problem seems to be not neccessarily early intervention, but a momentary loss of all brake function AFTER un-weighting or over skitter bumps. I've also heard some guys driving early 90s Corvettes complain of this too. It seems that it took a moment too long for the system to recover and re-apply max braking...SCARY feeling, I'm told. In normal circumstances, the driver would feel the ABS is doing a superb job, hearing the tires on the threshold of lock-up...BUT once increased braking force "could" have been applied, say after having passed ripple, the brakes would still not increase pressure. Perhaps not a factor in Autox, but something I too noticed during some hot laps in my nephews M3 on a rough track. While ABS made it a bit of a no-brainer in certain areas...in others I felt I could actually have been braking stronger, despite hearing the tires chirping briefly on "initial" application. The Porsche guys said that on "their" systems, it was not feasible to pull the fuse, as it also affected some other functions or perhaps brake balance (I don't recall...it wasn't relevant). My original comments were about the "possibility" only of "perhaps" making it slightly more difficult to "rotate" in AutoX (trailbraking)...not about being able to bias better. We shouldn't really be relying on the ABS to solve bias problems...although it does "cover" some, but that's only on the surface. Think about it...if one end is locking early, the ABS will get it rolling again, but this doesn't mean that the other end was also at it's threshold... Bias problems should be dealt with even more carefully on ABS equipped cars, if maximum braking force, not only control (2 separate things...but not always) is the issue. ABS can easily mask this. This is where actual stopping distance and deceleration rates come into it... I too wonder if the positive aspects mentioned of the newer systems aren't mainly the benefits of having larger brakes and tires on the newer Mk11s...one would certainly think these are worth something... Having said all this...I won't even comment on how much more I'd prefer to have them in the wet and on "street" where there are obviously more "emergency" type applications. Happy New Year everyone Tommy Guttmann tools@tooltech.qc.ca Montreal, Canada 2 x Mk1 SC ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:34:23 -0800 From: Greg Dimas Subject: MR2 mkII manual trans oil change '91 5sfe mkII Manual trans no LSD I picked up some Red Line Oil last week and I plan on changing the oil (in my manual trans.)tomorrow (Jan 1st). I was wondering If anybody has had trouble getting the drain plug loose? My drain plug seems to be fastened on by some evil satanic devil force and I was considering just pumping the oil out thrugh the fill hole. I have the 24mm socket but I think I'll have to jack the car up to get enough leverage to get the drain plug loose. I know a few of you out there have performed this procedure before: Did you pimp it out or open the drain plug? Can you get out all the old oil by pumping? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Your truly, knuckel buster. Now where did I put that 20' breaker bar? Racer X ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 20:04:10 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 mkII manual trans oil change Greg Dimas wrote: > > '91 5sfe mkII Manual trans no LSD > I picked up some Red Line Oil last week and I plan on changing the oil (in my manual > trans.)tomorrow (Jan 1st). > > I was wondering If anybody has had trouble getting the drain plug loose? > > My drain plug seems to be fastened on by some evil satanic devil force and I was considering just > pumping the oil out thrugh the fill hole. I have the 24mm socket but I think I'll have to jack > the car up to get enough leverage to get the drain plug loose. I know a few of you out there have > performed this procedure before: Did you pimp it out or open the drain plug? Can you get out all > the old oil by pumping? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks. > Now where did I put that 20' breaker bar? Tried that. 8) My drain nut is fine. The fill nut on the side will not come loose. At this point the nut/bolt is pretty rounded and I have bought a new one. I am giving up and taking the car into the dealer (scary) and telling them to get the nut off. The big problem with this nut is that it is buried in an indentation so that you can't get a good grip on it. I have tried vice grips. Randy Chase *needing MTL big time!* '91 MR2 NA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 18:57:07 +1000 From: Marcus Subject: [none] unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 07:13:02 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 Japanese MKII Turbo's/98 Project >Basically, the brain storm currently looks like this: >Find a 91/92 Turbo and pump it up to around 250-300 hp. I am thinking that >a neat project might be to attempt to swap in the Japan Spec 3sGTE. I >haven't heard of anyone doing this so I thought maybe I could give it a >try. I would like to here what other's think though. Anyone's suggestions >will be both considered and appreciated. Why swap motors? The engines are basically the same (minus a few details), and you can match/beat Japanese-spec numbers by just turning up (safely) the boost. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:29:39 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: MR2 Re: '91-94 ABS Changes Randy, the '93 and '94 New Car Features brochures don't mention any ABS changes, so I don't know if they are really different. I've just heard that the '91's aren't as good. Maybe it's just the bigger brakes on the '93+ turbos that makes the difference. I don't know. Brad Burns ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:54:47 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: Re: Tow Vehicles (not MR2 specific) Randy, for the price of a decent 4-runner and a supercharger for it you could get a nice V8 Grand Cherokee which would be a much better tow vehicle. Some boating magazine rated the V8 Grand Cherokee as it's tow vehicle of the year. Used ones go for around $17K around here. The thing I like about the Grand Cherokees is that they ride and handle really well compared to the others I've driven like Exploder and Blazer. Of course, neither the Grand Cherokee nor the 4-runner have that much room inside. I've heard of a few people using the 4-runner for towing and they work okay, but they really don't have much power or torque. The Durango looks like it would be a great tow vehicle and the perfect size. Decent cargo space without being Suburban huge. The Durango is pretty heavy, though, which is good for towing but bad for most everything else like handling and fuel economy. If I could afford a new tow vehicle I'd definitely have the Durango on my shopping list. I know a few people who use an Expedition and say that it is the best tow vehicle they have ever had. It is very roomy, comfortable, good quality and tows very well. They are big, though, and way out of my price range. Another vehicle I'm considering is an Astro van. It has a lot more room inside than any of the SUVs, especially if you get the extended version, and the Vortec V6 gives V8 power and torque with V6 economy. AWD was also available on them. I've heard they tow pretty well, too. The big advantage of a van is that I could sleep in it comfortably if I wanted to. The disadvantage of the Astro is the GM crap quality, and they don't have the comfort or ride of the SUVs. Plus, they're ugly. I saw an old full-size Bronco for sale the other day for $3300. Pretty tempting. They tow pretty well, although their wheelbase is pretty short which reduces stability, but they don't have a lot of cargo area for their size. Brad Burns ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #44