mr2-digest Wednesday, December 31 1997 Volume 02 : Number 040 MR2 Japanese vs. American car quality MR2 a challenge? Re: MR2 Timing Belt Change MR2 MK II TURBO: Information request Re: MR2 Assistance Needed With Oil Leak Re: MR2 MKI hood emblem Fwd: MR2 MK1 timing belt? Fwd: MR2 Japanese vs. American car quality it won't die! (used to be MR2 vs. americans) MR2 Re: A-stock Nationals results MR2 (Fwd) Silver State Classic!! info... Re:MR2 Mk I Life of Ball Joints MR2 "Deserted" roads and traffic cones MR2 MKI: Stereo upgrades ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:58:28 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: MR2 Japanese vs. American car quality I tried to prevent myself from being baited in this thread, but I lost. American Q.C. has come a long way since the 60's and 70's, but let's face it, it's still crap! People who purchase American cars (except for maybe Saturns) are simply used to taking their new cars back to the dealer for various "adjustments" and repairs. Just look at the lists of recalls for various cars. It's still American cars for the most part that are recalled for various safety design flaws (bad brake hose routing, possibility of electircal fires, steering linkage breaking, etc., etc., etc.) My 1986 MR2 NEVER had to go in for any adjustments or repairs (short of changing brakes at about 60,000 miles) and the only recall I ever had on my current one was that the steering wheel was too strong, so the Feds made them change it to one that would crush easier! During this time my family owned various cars... A Toyota 4Runner (never any problems, and now has 164,000 miles on it), 3 Honda Accords (never any problems), a Lincoln Town Car (three times back to the dealer the first month; I forget why), a 1990 Mercury Sabul (not a bad car, by the way) that had a horrible noise that had to do with a defective O2 sensor, and that car was BRAND NEW, a Caprice Classic (always in the shop), an Olds 88 (forget it!), and two Fords. I don't remember exactly what was wrong with the Fords, I just remember picking up my father at the Ford dealer in my MR2 when he'd drop the car off there for repairs about once a month or so. American cars SIMPLER? Yes, that's called old design (hey, many still have "live" axles in the rear!!!) Many still have PUSHROD engines! Simpler, sure, but we're talking technology that the better car manufacturers dropped in the 60's and 70's! I'm no techno-freak, but if more advanced technology causes more power to be developed with less fuel useage and less engine size and weight, using that technology is a no-brainer. People used to purchase Japanese cars because they were damn cheap and they worked adequately. Since the world economics changed in the 70's and 80's, they are buying them because they just work better and give less headaches, even though they are relatively expensive now. I used to spend my weekends fixing cars. Now I just spend time keeping my MR2 clean! - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 08:44:06 -0500 From: "Miller, Bill [PRI]" Subject: MR2 a challenge? Ron writes (BTW, a DeWalt reciprocating saw goes through an MR2 like a hot knife through butter). Does Steve B. have a challenger for the sawzall championship belt? Happy New Year to all! Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 08:51:44 EST From: Lsaccone Subject: Re: MR2 Timing Belt Change It cost me about $700 for the timing belt change with the tensioners and pullys. Larry S. 1991 Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 06:02:55 PST From: "Gordon Tyrrell" Subject: MR2 MK II TURBO: Information request Hi all, This is my first attempt at using the list so apologies if I'm not mailing to the right place. I need some information that I just can't seem to get. I'm in Ireland and being the small country it is with huge duty on cars, ther's not much in the way of tuning shops. I'm looking to get some Greddy parts and can't seem to find a supplier in Europe. If anyone out there knows of a supplier (preferably in the EU so I don't need to pay duty) I'd be eternally grateful. As an aside here are the official Toyota figures for the non-US models that were available since 1991. Europe: Coupe: 115bhp 2.0 litre (no rear spoiler. very strange looking) GT: 158bhp (pre-CAT days) 154bhp (with CAT) 2.0 litre 3S-GE 1994-today 168bhp 2.0 litre 3S-GE GT T-bar: as above for GT Japan: (oh it's great to drive on the left and get japanese specials) GTS: 225bhp 2.0 litre Turbo (14" alloys with 1991 style spoiler) 235bhp 2.0 litre Turbo (15" alloys with 1991 style spoiler) me---> 245bhp 2.0 litre Turbo (15" alloys with new spoiler and lower front skirt) We have the good fortune to be able to import second-hand Japanese cars into Ireland (and from here to the UK). They have some great one-offs. Just some useless info there at the end of my request but I noticed all sorts of figures being mentioned in various articles. These figures are from Toyota GB and Toyota in Japan (in a very broken english email) so I would expect they're pretty accurate. Thanks in advance Gordon Tyrrell Red 1995 MR2 GTS turbo (Jap import) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 08:49:48 EST From: Lsaccone Subject: Re: MR2 Assistance Needed With Oil Leak I'm making a big assumption when I say that if the MK1's engine layout is similar to my 91T's layout... I had a similar problem that turned out to be the spot where the oil filter screws onto. The guy said that the threads wrere going and the filters weren't grabbing enough. we rethreaded it and it has been fine ever since. Hope this helps. Larry S. 1991 Turbo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:07:22 EST From: FZZR Subject: Re: MR2 MKI hood emblem In a message dated 97-12-31 01:37:27 EST, you write: << Happy New Years everyone! Someone had E-mailed me a while ago about getting ahold of the eagle badge for the hood of the MKI. I dont remember who you are, so if theres anyone out there who needs that emblem, I'd be happy to mail it to you. Just drop me an E-mail at KB2WJI@aol.com Andrew dark pink 87na loaded >> Good lord somebody actually wants that screaming chicken. I can't wait to get mine off. I don' t even know what it has to do with the car. To each his own though. ****************************************************** Chuck FZZR@AOL.COM 88 MR2 SC (149,000 miles) 89 Yamaha FZR 1000 (for sale) ******************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:09:20 EST From: FZZR Subject: Fwd: MR2 MK1 timing belt? This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_883577360_boundary Content-ID: <0_883577360@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - --part0_883577360_boundary Content-ID: <0_883577360@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FZZR Return-path: To: MR2Turbo91@aol.com Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt? Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:09:02 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-31 01:51:05 EST, you write: << I was even denyed service by 2 local Pontiac dealers because, "we don't work on Fieros" >> Man that sucks. ****************************************************** Chuck FZZR@AOL.COM 88 MR2 SC (149,000 miles) 89 Yamaha FZR 1000 (for sale) ******************************************************** - --part0_883577360_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:21:40 EST From: FZZR Subject: Fwd: MR2 Japanese vs. American car quality This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_883578101_boundary Content-ID: <0_883578101@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII - --part0_883578101_boundary Content-ID: <0_883578101@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FZZR Return-path: To: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: Re: MR2 Japanese vs. American car quality Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:20:59 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-31 08:03:45 EST, you write: << I tried to prevent myself from being baited in this thread, but I lost. American Q.C. has come a long way since the 60's and 70's, but let's face it, it's still crap! People who purchase American cars (except for maybe Saturns) are simply used to taking their new cars back to the dealer for various "adjustments" and repairs. >> Alright. I wasn't going to get in this discussion but I can't take it any more. Everybody is talking about these GM cars then grouping them all togethor with American cars. Well as a long time Ford man I just can't take this. I had a supercharged Mustang GT which I drag raced 1 to 2 times a week at the local track and I never once brought it in for service. Then my buddy has a 90 Stang which has been autocrossed, drag raced, top speed hell everything since it was new. He just passed the 130,000 mile point and it still ran fine. The only reason it isn't running right now is because he is putting on aluminum heads. There I got that off of my chest. ****************************************************** Chuck FZZR@AOL.COM 88 MR2 SC (149,000 miles) 89 Yamaha FZR 1000 (40,000 miles) ******************************************************** - --part0_883578101_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:34:00 -0500 From: "Miller, Bill [PRI]" Subject: it won't die! (used to be MR2 vs. americans) Ah yes, the storys of immortal Toyotas. For the most part I have to agree. The 86 NA that I race has a motor from another 86. When this motor was removed from its original home it had ~85k on it. Since then, it has: * Finished 2nd in class at the 1996 longest day of Nelson (24 hr endurance race for SCCA IT cars) * Been rented to 10+ different drivers for schools / time trials / races. * Competed in 10 other endurance races (1 to 4 hours, no DNF's) * Competed in 30+ sprint races (12 to 16 laps, depending on length of track, usually 30 - 45 min., no DNF's) * Rolled (practice session, before I bought the car, still ran the entire race and finished 3rd in class!) * Undergone a significant diet (~2000 lbs w/o driver or fuel) * Introduced quit a few people to how much fun it is to drive a race car Through all of this, there has never been a mechanical failure and the engine has not been apart / out of the car. All that has been done is regular oil changes (every 3rd race) and 1 timing belt (we really SHOULD change it, shouldn't we?). All of this has renewed my faith in the reliability of Toyota products. Why did it have to be 'renewed' you ask. Well, I bought a brand new 86 Celica GT hatchback (ordered it in Nov. 85, white, S/R, 5speed, alloy wheels, NO two-tone paint or digital dash). My best friend also bought a new 86 GT at the same time (blue, no S/R, hatchback, no alloys). At 25k - 30k miles, both cars needed water pumps. His car needed a starter at 33k, mine at 40k. Mine needed the header pipe replaced at 38k, his at 44k. Mine needed a clutch at 50k (at which point I gave it to my wife and bought an 84 GTI), his at 57k. Both cars need front brakes at ~30k. His needed AC compressor at 60k (at which point he sold it and bought an 89 MX-6 GT), mine at 75k. Mine needed an alternator at 82k. We traded the car w/ 86k on it for an 89 Cherokee w/ 32k on it, got $3500 for trade, Cherokee's still going at 120k (even w/ bad paint!) I guess your beginning to get the picture by now. I know part of this is my fault, I broke the rule of never buying the first year of a new model of anything (although there seem to be a lot of 85 '2s still around). This was when the switched from rwd to fwd, from the 22R to the 2SE motor, etc. Both of us were enthusiasts but didn't beat the cars. I could have chalked this up to just one bad car if it weren't for the fact that both cars needed the same major service w/in a few thousand miles of each other. This really shattered my faith in the reliability of Toyotas and turned me down the VW path (still have the 84 GTI, 136k and a 93 Corrado SLC). As you can imagine, I was very leery about buying the MR2 as a RACE car. It came down to a matter of simple economics, it was ~$2k cheaper to buy the MR2 w/ spares than it was to build my GTI for racing. Since then, I've been very happy w/ my '2 racer. Short of consumables (tires, fluids, brakes, etc.) and and additional development (camber adjusters, previously mentioned diet, etc.), the car didn't cost me a dime to run all year. I know of many other stories of long running Toyotas, a previous driver of my car has an 86 MR2 w/ 175k on it and it's still going strong. Another guy has a 4wd pickup w/ a 22R (heavily wheeled an beaten) w/ 225k on it and STILL running, no rebuild. I guess I just picked the wrong year to buy one (I really wanted an 85 GTS convertible). A friend of mine who is a professional mechanic says that there are also lots of problems w/ the 86 Camarys (same chassis / drive line as the 86 ST/GT Celicas). Well enough off-topic rambling, I just felt I had to put my $0.02 in. Again, a happy, healthy and prosperous new year to all and let's hope that Jeff can find a crash-proof '2 soon. Regards, Bill ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:42:36 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: MR2 Re: A-stock Nationals results Randy, these look like the 1995 results. I remember Matt Murray driving a '93T in 1995, and Terry Baker had a beautiful new Porsche 993 that year. This year they were both driving 968s, Bailey switched to CS, Meeseman now has a newer Corvette, Stacy drove an M3 I think, and AS was won by Jeff Reitmeir in his 944S2. Lots of changes, huh? And last year AS was won by Bob Tunnell in his M3. >I posted the URL for this cool article about autox, which included Kevin >Bailey's MR2 (Turbo). Matt Murray pointed out to me that the article was >not totally correct in regards finishes. He kindly gave me the standings >from the Finals. Some list members are on here. I aint telling who. 8) > > > 1. Kevin Bailey ConD MR2 117.830 > 2. Stacy Reitmeir SanF 911 118.216 > 3. John Broderick Colo MR2 118.901 > 4. Ray Meesseman Det Corvette 119.244 > 5. Dan Maloney Ariz 911 119.873 > 6. Michael Piera NEng 911S 120.800 > 7. Matthew Murray NEng MR2 120.943 > 8. Terry Baker ODom 911 121.266 > 9. T.C. Kline OhV M3 121.691 >10. Steve Sucsy WTex MR2 122.710 >11. Mark Shehan Det MR2 123.044 >12. Randy Eickhoff KC MR2 123.549 >13. Takahisa Aono Neb MR2 123.928 >14. Gerrit d'Ablaing Hous Corvette 124.504 >15. Terry Anhorn Colo 914 124.852 >16. Mark Wiley Wich Speedster 127.652 >17. Guy Watney KC MR2 129.951 > >17 cars -- trophies went to top 5 Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:06:49 -0500 From: Phil Cutajar Subject: MR2 (Fwd) Silver State Classic!! info... Hey, I saw that a couple of weeks ago on ESPN2 (I think). There were several different classes (based on target speed) and one open class where the object is to go as fast as possible (some guy was gonna try 200mph). I believe the objective is to get as close as possible to a predetermine target speed over a stretch of road in both directions. I was wondering if anyone on this list was gonna try it... It's run in nevada so I'm not likely to participate, but it sure would be a hoot. BTW... they had 2 or 3 big crashes, so be careful. - -- Phil Cutajar '93 MR2-Turbo, Super White, 74k miles K&N FIPK, MR2-PP MBC mailto:Solo2_MR2@ibm.net my web page:http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/6213/index.htm ICQ #6032611 > Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:38:53 -0008 > From: TerrySaltzman@home.com > Subject: MR2 (Fwd) Silver State Classic!! info... > > genteeeeelfolks, > > the ssc is coming up (actually its th enevada open road which is > basically th esame thing). i just got off the phone with larry hall > (he won 1st in the 95mph bracket in a mki w/127k) he has since sold > the 2 and will run this spring in a...GET THIS!... in a chevy S10 . > he is going to strech it 3 ft and drop in a jag. V12 and compete in > the 145+ class! sounds like a crazy country boy to me! it will be mid > engine too...the V12 will set between the cab and the bed...WOW! now > thats crazy.he also mentioned to me that espn or speedvision is > suposed to run a feature on this past event in dec-january he is > checking into it. > > anyway...im planning on running this. pete, austin, > patrick mention their interest also... any supra takers? > > you can get info packages from the address below, larry is gonna send > me one. there is also the "la carrera" in the fall. this is an > international race in baja mex which sounds interesting. > > lets get ready it wil be here before you know it- > > terryiscrazywiththethoughtofopenroadsandopenthrottles > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:19:26 -0500 From: Jason Hirst Subject: Re:MR2 Mk I Life of Ball Joints >What is the life expectancy for the ball joints on the Mk I >MR2's. Specifically, I own an '85 with about 95K miles on >it. All opinions are welcome. 135,000 miles and still in good shape. Jason '85 MK1 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:28:51 -0800 From: Mike Gruber Subject: MR2 "Deserted" roads and traffic cones Randy Chase said... > I never hit cones. I also never do an impromptu autox when I see cones > lined up on the otherwise deserted road. 8) Be careful, Randy! I honestly have always resisted the temptation to do this, but once in Montana, I came upon a line of traffic cones on a seemingly deserted hiway. I began the obvious manuever, and as I crested a slight brow in the road, imagine my surprise to see a Montana state trooper about 100 yards up the road and on the same (wrong) side of the cones as I! I quickly swerved back into the "proper" lane, and continued on my way. Either he didn't see me, or he was laughing as hard as my wife... Mike Gruber ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 10:52:28 -0500 From: John Wink Subject: MR2 MKI: Stereo upgrades G'day! I just had a CD player installed in my '85, in place of the factory tape deck. Clear as a bell, but seems the bass response has gone straight to H-E-Double-hockey-sticks. Don't know if this is real or perceived... The question is, what size are the two speakers in the dash of the MkI? Are they hard to get at to replace? Also, anyone have any experience with dropping a small subwoofer into this car, maybe under the seat or something? Many thanks! Purchased 97/12/15 '85 MKI 225000 km Stock - That'll change! John Wink Toronto, Canada ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #40