mr2-digest Wednesday, December 31 1997 Volume 02 : Number 039 MR2 Toyota Vs Americans (round 2) (((DING))) Re: ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A MR2 Mk I Life of Ball Joints Re: MR2 GM = general maintainance (was MK1 timing belt?) MR2 Mk1 Dist. O-Ring/head gasket question Re: MR2 (Fwd) Silver State Classic!! info... Re: MR2 Toyota Vs Americans (round 2) (((DING))) Re: MR2 Toyota Vs Americans (round 2) (((DING))) Re: ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A MR2 Cones..... Re: MR2 Toyota Vs Americans (round 2) (((DING))) Re: MR2 GM = general maintainance (was MK1 timing belt?) MR2 in movies ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:54:35 EST From: MR2Turbo91 Subject: MR2 Toyota Vs Americans (round 2) (((DING))) In a message dated 97-12-30 19:51:20 EST, cmking@odin.cmp.ilstu.edu writes: << Maybe it's time for Austin T. to tell the tale of the old Corolla he owned if we still have believers. Chris K >> Wait, I saw my name in a post, and I wasn't the one to post it!!! I feel special... So I have to reply Anyways, to make a long story brief, here is a list of previous and current cars.... 80 Corolla SR5 four door 1.8 litre 3T-C??? 83 Chevy Blazer K-5 305, then a new 350 a bunch of Fieros ranging from a 85 2M8 (yes 8, I did a V-8 conversion with a chevy 350) to a 88 GT with the 2.8litre V-6 93 Honda Accord 91 MR2-Turbo to tell you the truth, even though all of the cars made a spot in my heart, the three that are still running like a champ are the three imports. Now to tell you a brief History on the Corolla. My parents bought it in 80 new, and it was my mom's car, the first ride I remember in the car was with my brother, and he heard some bad news from a friend, we raced down to the highschool where he was hard on the gas up untill the last moment, then he pulled the hand break, setting the car into a side slide stopping by hitting the curb, he jumped out of the car and kicked some guys ass... I still don't know why, but I remember hearing him SLAM through the gears, and the sound of my head hitting the door when the car slid into the curb..... After it was my brother's and sister's "first cars" it was my first car, this was in 1992. AND I TRASHED the car... the muffler rusted, and started dragging, so at school, a bunch of friends and I ripped it off and threw it in the trunk. Drove it that way for about 3 months... the water pump bearing went, and it threw the belt, so I cut the belt off, and drove it without a water pump for a week....The front pads were worn away to the metal.... so I started useing the hand break exclusively.... about a months worth of driving till the rear shoes started to bite too.....I once flipped the car into a ditch. yes, a complete end(nose) over end(tail) flip, and landed on the side, we rolled the car back over, had a tow truck pull us out of the ditch, and we drove it home. NO DAMAGE WAS DONE (even though the tow truck pulled us out by the sway bar).... There are TONS of storys on how this punk kid (me) trashed the shit out of this car, and it never ever stopped running... Hell I used to go four wheelling with my friends in this car, it was the perefect rally car... I used to skipp (yes skipp) the car accross the salt river. all you have to do is make sure you are going fast enough to make sure the front end is still up when you hit the water. I learned what a great car Toyota's were when my dad sold that car in 1996 for $500 and the thing still ran like a champ. I still wish I had that car! and that car was a hell of alot easier to work on than any of my others (except the starter which requires removing the exhaust manifold) So, I push started the car for a month since I didn't want to bother removing the exhaust... anyways, I am rambleing.... Austin T -ex punk kid (you know, it's easier to say to this group that I was a punk, then it is to say I was a Fiero owner....) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 23:01:40 -0800 From: Brian Jackson Subject: Re: ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A Randy Chase ASKED: > Was ABS an option only for the T-top cars? Are/Were there any hardtop > or sunroof cars with ABS? This is for a 91 N/A MKII. Thanks! I have the 91 dealer brochure in front of me and ABS was an _option_ on both the Turbo and the N/A cars. Brian - -- - ------------------------------- Brian Jackson uva uvam vivendo varia fit ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 22:58:47 -0800 From: wagner@sprynet.com Subject: MR2 Mk I Life of Ball Joints Hi Guys: What is the life expectancy for the ball joints on the Mk I MR2's. Specifically, I own an '85 with about 95K miles on it. All opinions are welcome. Thanks, Bill Wagner ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 01:59:14 EST From: Ltraviolnc Subject: Re: MR2 GM = general maintainance (was MK1 timing belt?) In a message dated 97-12-30 18:44:41 EST, you write: >>>The guy who fixes my car is know telling me that I >>> should get rid of it b/c of this one problem since its electrical. >>And do what? Buy a GM car and have 30 things wrong with it, including electical? >>Maybe you should get rid of him, instead ;-) > I agree with everything you replyed on Ltraviolnc except for that last bit o > bull about the GM cars, you see IF and i mean IF you ever have anything wrong > with a GM, it will cost you a fraction of the cost that it does for an import > like my toyota or a honda. Plus, in my experience, the GM's easier to work on, > more room, simplicity, and well thought out. Plus, the way i drive, ive seen > that the GM's can take the abuse longer than the imports. Im not knocking my > import at all, just stating my experience. > Mike Craig Well everyone has their own opinions, but I have to disagree on all counts. I draw my experiences from a former occupation as an ASE certified technician who has worked for dealers and private shops and ownership of over twenty cars (including 5 GM's and 3 Toyota's). The qustion is'nt "if", it's "what next". Supposedly there have been some quality improvements made to GM cars in the last few years (I doubt much), but the previous 15 to 20 years was all junk, especially gross and sometimes unfixable engine control system problems since the computers started in '81. (the term "check engine light" is synonomous with GM cars of the eighties). I personally would not own a car from an automaker that prominantly displayed it's roadside assistance number on the quarter window. That is a bad omen by itself. As far as the cost issue goes, modern automobiles do not vary wildly in parts/labor costs like they used to. Imports have come down while domestics have gone way up. And any higher cost is always offset by less repairs on average (a proven fact) and higher retained value, resulting in higher resale/trade in value of imports. Easier to work on? Are we talking about a late '60s smallblock A-body or a current GM model? I find them to be the worst designed and most difficult to work on of practically any car made, and I have'nt met many mechanics who would disagree. Ever look at the engine compartment of a 4th gen. Camaro/Firebird? (where's the engine....oh, it's under the dash...) Toyota's are a breeze (at least I've never had any trouble with them) Four bolt sizes practically takes the whole car apart. I can have the motor/trans out of my MR2 in less than four hours...try that with a GM car. "Room" is only worth having if you use it effectively. Most GM cars do not. If "simplicity" refers to solid rear axles, drum brakes, OHV engines, and antiquated electronic systems....I'll pass. As far as "well thought out" goes, work on them for a living. Or for an easier lesson, consult a list of recalls of GM models and pay attention to the type of problems and the number of cars affected. It's so pathetic, it's funny. For instance, late eighties Beretta's and Corsica's had recalls including, and among others: loose steering wheels, hoods that fly open, wheels that "come apart", and defective seatbelts. And lets not forget the "flaming 2M4's", either. They throw these things together with the sole purpose of net profits...quality, reliability, and safety are afterthoughts. I've never seen parts "fall off" a Toyota, nor have I witnessed one on fire. I beat the piss out of my MR2 on a daily basis (ask some folks on our last few rallies), and have for the last 10 years, and with the exeption of the popping 5th gear syndrome, it has never broken. To best answer your last comment on longevity, take a walk around a large junkyard and look at some odometers. Ron 87/\/\R2 Ltraviolnc@aol.com ICQ '98: 3087083 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 02:11:31 EST From: Kurowski Subject: MR2 Mk1 Dist. O-Ring/head gasket question In a message dated 12/30/97 9:30:53 PM, you wrote: >Once upon a time I tried to change my distributor o-ring. The new ring >(there was no old one) would not fit in the groove in the distributor >shaft. The groove itself was actually way too big, but the groove was >mostly taken up with what looked like a black anodized washer, except >it didn't move *at all* so I guess it was part of the dizzy shaft. In >any case the o-ring did NOT fit in the remaining groove space, and slid >up the shaft upon installation. Is there a trick here? What am I missing? >Or maybe they sent the wrong part? (That same parts order had several >other parts too, which were all right.) > > Any help appreciated, > Chris C. That "black anodized washer" was probably your old o-ring which turned hard as a rock due exposure to oil (which happens to rubber over time). Mine was like hard plastic when I replaced it. Pry that old stuff out of there and try again. My car currently has leaks emanating from the cam seals, crank seal, oil cooler hoses, oil pan, etc. which are all being fixed this week. Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing. I've heard the crank seal is a common leakage area. I already replaced the dist. o-ring and the cam cover gaskets. Also, my head gasket is leaking "externally" causing a gradual loss of coolant. Any dangers with driving in this condition? Of course, I monitor my coolant level carefully. There is no blowby or oil/water mixing at this point. It *will* get worse, I know. Then, I'll have to start wrenching in order to avoid the $800 or so it costs to get this done at the dealer. Paul Janicki kurowski@aol.com San Jose, CA, USA White 86 Mk1 135,000 miles ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 02:22:05 EST From: MR2Turbo91 Subject: Re: MR2 (Fwd) Silver State Classic!! info... In a message dated 97-12-31 01:44:55 EST, TerrySaltzman@home.com writes: << anyway...im planning on running this. pete, austin, patrick mention their interest also... any supra takers? you can get info packages from the address below, larry is gonna send me one. there is also the "la carrera" in the fall. this is an international race in baja mex which sounds interesting. lets get ready it wil be here before you know it- terryiscrazywiththethoughtofopenroadsandopenthrottles >> Hey Terry, I e-mailed off for this info about two months ago, and still haven't gotten any.... did you talk to him personally? And what was the entrance fee again??? Ausitn T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 02:58:57 EST From: Ltraviolnc Subject: Re: MR2 Toyota Vs Americans (round 2) (((DING))) In a message dated 97-12-31 02:15:01 EST, MR2Turbo91@aol.com writes: > Now to tell you a brief History on the Corolla. There are TONS of storys on how this punk kid (me) > trashed > the shit out of this car, and it never ever stopped running... Hell I used > to > go four wheelling with my friends in this car, it was the perefect rally > car... Damn, that brings back sweet memories of my 76 Celica GT liftback. Same deal...I just could'nt kill the thing. It had over 100k on it when I got it and suffered many hard miles after, some of which included: 4-wheeling in mud, dirt, snow, running over anything I could find on the side of the road, shopping cart bashing, high speed attacks on orange construction barrels (70+mph), "jumping" sharp crests to see how high we could get it off the ground, e-brake spins and slides, and many others too sick to mention. It eventually died from unintentional damage after falling asleep, running off the road into a ditch, grazing a tree, and screwing up the front end and transmission. It was quite fixable, but was rusted pretty bad underneath, so we parted ways and I moved on to another car to wreck (which incedently was a GM car...76 Formula 400...and I blew that one up in less than two months....and several more times afterwards). On a happy note, the Celica's 20R still lives in a 4x4 around here that I see regularly. The legacy continues and it still won't die! (BTW, the Firebird has been tin can material long since). Geez, I miss my GT. If I could only find another one that is'nt rusted beyond recognition or been "ghetto-ized" (a popular fate of old Toyotas around here), I'd have the perfect winter car. Ron 87/\/\R2 now missing his old yellow liftback Ltraviolnc@aol.com ICQ '98: 3087083 PS: I don't do any of those things with cars anymore, but am still known to take out an orange cone once in a while....10 points a piece. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:15:57 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 Toyota Vs Americans (round 2) (((DING))) Brings back memories of my 1970 Toyota Corona. The car that couldn't die. We used to do the same kinda punk stuff. Take the car over jumps, hit things. The car magically became a midengined car when a 1/2 ton pickup hit it at 50+ mph and introduced the engine to the rear trunk. > PS: I don't do any of those things with cars anymore, but am still known to > take out an orange cone once in a while....10 points a piece. I never hit cones. I also never do an impromptu autox when I see cones lined up on the otherwise deserted road. 8) I hit a 36" high massive cone straight on at our last autox. I was going about 55mph when I hit it. It left a perfect triangular cone outline on my front end. It finally rubbed out. Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:20:58 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: ABS and the 91/92 MR2 N/A Okay..so how do I install ABS? Does it impact other major items? How much does it weigh? Think of me like the backpacker who hacksaws off the handle of his toothbrush to sabe weight. I can't increase the power (under stock rules), so weight is the other variable. Then again, perhaps it all the holiday food I have been eating. Randy Chase '91 Mr2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 03:22:38 EST From: MR2Turbo91 Subject: MR2 Cones..... In a message dated 97-12-31 03:19:06 EST, randyc@pacbell.net writes: << I hit a 36" high massive cone straight on at our last autox. I was going about 55mph when I hit it. It left a perfect triangular cone outline on my front end. It finally rubbed out. Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A >> this must have been in Texas, everything is bigger in TEXAS!!!! Austin T ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:04:28 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 Toyota Vs Americans (round 2) (((DING))) >On a happy note, the Celica's >20R still lives in a 4x4 around here that I see regularly. Scott D. has a 145k 4A-GE from an '85 MR2 parts car sitting in the front of his '80 Corolla SR-5. He's had no problem driving it from Chicago to Detroit to help part out a Corolla GT-S. Thing just won't stop. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:04:23 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 GM = general maintainance (was MK1 timing belt?) >Easier to work on? Are we talking about a late '60s smallblock A-body or a >current GM model? I find them to be the worst designed and most difficult to >work on of practically any car made, and I have'nt met many mechanics who >would disagree. Ever look at the engine compartment of a 4th gen. >Camaro/Firebird? (where's the engine....oh, it's under the dash...) Toyota's >are a breeze (at least I've never had any trouble with them) Four bolt sizes >practically takes the whole car apart. I can have the motor/trans out of my >MR2 in less than four hours...try that with a GM car. I won't say which brand is better or worse, all I can offer is empirical evidence: American: '76 Mercury Monarch, only American car I've ever daily driven. Brakes were aweful, #6 spark plug was forever fouling from an oil leak (repair more then car, dealt with the crappy idle), vinyl seats, no a/c, 4-door, manual windows, Florida car. Father brought it home with no brakes. Late '80s Cougar, wife's last car before we were married. That car was a nightmare waiting to happen. Oil leaks, tranny leaked, mufflers would fall off with timed regularity, rust-bucket, I believe the in-laws finally gave it to charity (and took the tax deduction) as they couldn't sell it. '90 Aerostar, in-law's car. The only reason they bought it is because I offered to keep it running if I could put a tow-hitch on it and borrow it any time (to tow parts cars home). A maintenance-nightmare waiting to happen, but it was cheap, and they need a minivan to haul stuff in. It's been about 6 months now, so they can throw it away (literally) and have come out ahead on payments. Funny thing - it's got 165k miles on it, and just won't die. Of the cars with the worst reps, this one is still running. But, the heat doesn't work for crap (*huge* interior), no shocks, springs are shot, driver's power window won't roll down without hand assistance, etc. '91 Escort - wife's car, amazingly reliable (considering it's a Ford), but it was also a Ford/Mazda car, so that probably explains a lot. The '90 was supposed to be crap, Mazda became involve, the '91 has 85k miles and the only thing I've replaced is the front brakes. Interesting. Japansese: '76 Corolla SR-5 - sold at 145k miles. '86 MR2 - sold at 55k miles (big financial mistage, long story) '80 Celica Sunchaser - sold at 120k miles. '77 Carina - sold at 135k miles. '85 MR2 - parted out at 165k miles. '91T MR2 - still own at 90k miles. '85SC MR2 - still own, body has 95k miles, engine has 165k miles '90 Camry All-Trac - still own at 108k miles. On the '85 MR2, I once drove that car 2 years with only gas/oil/insurance. No payments, no repairs, amazing. Replaced the alternator (8 years old), did the brakes (beat on them), swapped the tranny (beat on that even harder, my fault), and drove it another 2 years or so. With American cars, you buy them pre-owned and cheap, you put in gas/oil/tires/etc, and when it breaks you either bend-over or just leave it on the side of the road. It's an 'expense purchase'. With Japanese cars, you put in gas/oil/tires/etc, you replace the broken part and drive it another 40k miles with nothing else breaking. It's a 'capital purchase'. When buying American cars, you depreciate it and trash it when you're down. When buying Japanese cars, you better like that car, because it'll be around for about 10 years. That's not a hard-and-fast rule, but it sure has lived up to the last 15 years of car ownership. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:54:53 -0500 From: "Gettler, James" Subject: MR2 in movies Hello All... I don't know if Jeff had this movie on the list or not, but there is a Teal (it's hard to tell the color of it) MR2 in the Cable Guy (movie with Jim Carey and Matthew Broaderick). You will see it in the scene where Matthew Broaderick is in the parking garage and all of the car alarms are going off. Me and the wife were watching it and I screamed when I saw it. Jim Gettler '93 Arctic White NA 50,300 miles (and in the garage for the rest of the winter...) > -----Original Message----- > From: Ardell L. Simon [SMTP:rals@ptd.net] > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 10:39 PM > To: mr2-interest@mr2.com > Subject: MR2 MKI in LAPD tv show > > I was watching LAPD today and they were setting up an undercover drug > bust. > The undercover buyer was driving a.....any guesses?........a black > MKI no > spoiler!!! > > I'll add this 'sighting' to the growing list of MR2's spotted in > shows/movies on my web page. We are up to 19 sightings!! > > Jeff F ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #39