mr2-digest Tuesday, December 30 1997 Volume 02 : Number 036 Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt? MR2 MKI chip in t-top MR2 Questions on cam timing: more overlap=more top end? Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt change Re: MR2 Re: Power antenna problems Re: MR2 MKI SC Registry has MOVED!!! Re: MR2 weather and money Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt? Re: MR2 93T (convertable) PARTS Re: MR2 93T (convertable) PARTS MR2 91NA ABS Brakes RE: MR2 Re: '91NA Brochure Re: MR2 seats, wasDifferentiating Tyre Sizes, fore & aft MR2 MKIINA: 5SFE Head Re: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, do I need GZE injectors? MR2 MKII bushings for street and autox MR2 MKI Seats Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt? Re: MR2 93T (convertable) PARTS MR2 Assistance Needed With Oil Leak ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 02:33:13 EST From: Ltraviolnc Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt? In a message dated 97-12-30 01:57:20 EST, locaencabeza@hotmail.com writes: > This is a stupid question but I must ask. Only stupid if not asked.... > What belt is the timing belt on the MK1? Is it the lower one of > the two belts on the passenger side. > How do I tell if it has been changed or not. The bottom belt says > DAYCO on it or something. The top belt I didn't look at close enough to > see what it said on it. None of those. those are accessory drive belts for the alternator, water pump, and A/C. The timing belt is inside the black plastic cover on the front of the engine, behind those belts. You can't see it with the covers on. > Will spraying belt dressing on the timing belt extend its life? No, just ruin it faster. > The reason I'm asking is b/c my 87 MR2 has 85,000 miles on it and > I bought it with 60,000 in 1994 of a used car dealer. I didn't ask him > if the belt has been changed or not so I'm a little concerned. An inspection of it could'nt hurt. If it is cracked, dry, or worn, replace it. If it says something other than Toyota on it like Gates or Dayco, chances are it's been changed at or before 60k and good for another 40k, given the present mileage. If in doubt, change it anyway. > I also have another question regading that stinkin alternator. > this is my second alternator. I replaced the 1st one with a > rebuilt one. This is the only problem I've had with this car. Would that have been one of those "$99.00 special" rebuilds from a discount parts store? If so, you get what you pay for. Go with a quality rebuild, like a Beck-Arnley or have it rebuilt at an electrical parts repair shop. Spending a little more money up front will get you much better quality and a no BS warranty. Either of these should be under $200.00. > Another problem just occured this past week again and I think its > the rebuilt alternator! Arggg...! The Ebrake,coolant,and the charge > lights are coming on the dash. The coolant and charge blink ever so > slightly after driving for a few minutes. The lights go dim but never > fizzle completly out. Anyway it has to be the alternator. Before I had > the same problem but when I popped up the headlights or drove for more > than two minutes the car lost all power know its just lossing power ever > so slightly. > If it is the alternator. Why am I getting this rattling noise > coming from a area near or in the alternator? Old bearings re-used? Cheap rebuilders only replace what is bad at the time of rebuilding. I used to know someone who worked for one of the countries' largest auto parts rebuilders, and heard all the horror stories to confirm my suspitions about these "discount" parts. Anyone ever experiance > this. The car is always very quiet now its still quiet but I can > actually hear that annoying rattling buzzing sound. I hope I didn't > break anything!! The guy who fixes my car is know telling me that I > should get rid of it b/c of this one problem since its electrical. And do what? Buy a GM car and have 30 things wrong with it, including electical? Maybe you should get rid of him, instead ;-) NO > way that is going to happen. > Sorry for using up space > thanks though. > Todd > 87 MR2 > alternator WOES again... > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 00:26:31 -0800 From: Todd Clark Subject: MR2 MKI chip in t-top I was just out washing, polishing, and waxing my 88 SC MR2 when I noticed a large (~7mm) chip in the metal strip that separates the two tops. Does anybody have any idea how I should fix this? The chip goes all the way to the bare metal. My first thought was to fill the hole with epoxy and then paint the repair to match the surrounding finish. What is the finish on this strip? It seems to be a lot thicker than paint. Any suggestions? Thanks, Todd Clark 88 SC MR2 (NOVELL) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:45:04 +1000 From: Robin San Subject: MR2 Questions on cam timing: more overlap=more top end? Hi guys I was wondering what is the theory behind cam timing? Currently I have my intake cam at 98ATDC and my exhaust at 100BTDC. If I change to 110ATDC for the intake and 112BTDC for the exhaust; 1) Theoretically shoud I be getting more bottom end right? this is 2) Is this called retarding the cams? Sorry I just meed to clarify a few things, still a black art as far as im concerned. Thanks Robin San 89 MK1 NA ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:18:24 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt change >SORRY! i didnt realize the 4age was a non-interferance. Don't start a message with 'it will be trashed'... >I know now, but i was >right if it wasnt a non-inter... That's toyota-mods, for the 22R group... :) Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:19:17 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 Re: Power antenna problems >My power antenna doesn't work also, it doesn't go up nor down but only >those grinding noise :-( >I heard that some people had used those high power fixed antenna (its so >short that it looks the same as if it doesn't go up) and I am wondering >if anyone of you have heard of that. How about spending the $45 on the Toyota part (antenna arm), printing out the directions from mr2.com, and keeping your antenna stock? Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:20:35 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 MKI SC Registry has MOVED!!! >I know you'll all have problems remembering such a LONG URL, but once I've >completed the changes it should be a much better resource for us SC owners >and SC owner wannabes. If you can't seem to get the hang of the above URL, >then you can also use.... > >www.mr2sc.com If you two haven't already done this, would the SC and Mk II registries please contact mr2.com to be linked from there, and then link the two regitries together. Thanks. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:20:50 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 weather and money >David- > >Thanks for this. I knew there was some benefit to this frozen tundra. Oh, >and on my way back from my in-laws place in North Dakota, I bought a tank of >93 octane fuel for $1.16/ gallon. Sweet! It isn't the difference in price between one region and another during the same time of the year. It's the difference in price at the same gas station, at different times of the year. During the labor day weekend, I paid $1.49 at a local gas station (I presume that the marketing department said that people would rather go somewhere else then pay $1.50). Last week, I paid $1.22 for the same gas, at the same pump, at the same station. I swear I'm going to put a 200gallon tank in my garage, and get them back next labor day. :) Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:21:56 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt? >This is a stupid question but I must ask. > > What belt is the timing belt on the MK1? The one behind the timing belt cover. You can't see it without taking off the covers. > Is it the lower one of >the two belts on the passenger side. No. > How do I tell if it has been changed or not. With the Toyota timing belt comes a sticker sheet in the bag. That sticker sheet has a white surface to write the milage/date on, and a clear sticker to cover the white sticker (so the ink doesn't wear off). If there's no sticker, then you are free to presume that the timing belt hasn't been changed. > this is my second alternator. I replaced the 1st one with a >rebuilt one. This is the only problem I've had with this car. So buy one from Toyota. It'll probably last as long as the original one did - - about 10 years. Yea, it's expensive, but didn't the first one last 10 years? > Another problem just occured this past week again and I think its >the rebuilt alternator! Arggg...! The Ebrake,coolant,and the charge >lights are coming on the dash. Alternator. > If it is the alternator. Why am I getting this rattling noise >coming from a area near or in the alternator? Because the alteranator is trashed, or the belt is tensioned? Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:22:23 -0400 From: bagdon@rust.net (S and K Bagdon) Subject: Re: MR2 93T (convertable) PARTS >In a message dated 97-12-28 23:25:35 EST, rals@ptd.net writes: > >> So Ron P adn I have started pulling the wreck apart.....*sigh* > >I must say that Jeff is handling this all very well. My car is over 10 years >old and probably worth less than the stereo system in it, but I don't know if >I could stand watching it cut up, so I give him credit for that. (BTW, a >DeWalt reciprocating saw goes through an MR2 like a hot knife through butter). First car - saddness and loss. Second car - a little remorse. Fifth car - get this thing outta here, I want my driveway back. I prefer Milwaukee Sawzall Plus (with the quick-release blade coupler, doesn't require a hex-tool) and 22tpi+ 8" blades. I could cut up an MR2 small enough for two people to load it onto a flat bed, with no dollies, in about 2 hours. Now, I call AAA, and have them flat-bed it to Auto Shredders. Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:38:45 EST From: MR2Turbo91 Subject: Re: MR2 93T (convertable) PARTS In a message dated 97-12-30 07:31:32 EST, bagdon@rust.net writes: << I prefer Milwaukee Sawzall Plus (with the quick-release blade coupler, doesn't require a hex-tool) and 22tpi+ 8" blades. I could cut up an MR2 small enough for two people to load it onto a flat bed, with no dollies, in about 2 hours. Now, I call AAA, and have them flat-bed it to Auto Shredders. Steve B. >> Is it just me, or does this post sound a little morbid to you guys, I mean, this car was someone's BABY??? He sounds like my Human gross anatamy professor... "Why are you guys being so delicate... It's just meat.... You're not going to hurt him, HE'S DEAD!! I expect you to have the thorasic organs out in the next 15 minutes....." Austin T ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:08:56 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: MR2 91NA ABS Brakes Yes, ABS brakes were an option for the '91NA's; a VERY EXPENSIVE option, too! I don't remember what the exact price was, but I still have the original window sticker for my 91NA, so if anyone is interested in the exact cost of that option, I will dig it out of my glove compartment. - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:48:25 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: RE: MR2 Re: '91NA Brochure ABS was an option for the N/A? Are you sure Brad? Nope. I'm not sure of much of anything. Brad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 07:56:26 -0600 From: "Andrew P. Tasi" Subject: Re: MR2 seats, wasDifferentiating Tyre Sizes, fore & aft - -----Original Message----- >Sammy Joseph, '88 4AGZE > > >PS- I just noticed this: Anyone besides me notice how comfortable that Mk >I driver's seat is? The car I had before had recaros, but my Mk I puts >those to shame. It rivals the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in. Yes. Last night I spent 5 hours driving back from the future in-laws place, and felt completely comfortable the whole way. This is no small feat judging by how 5 hours feels in allot of other cars. - -Andrew P. Tasi ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:07:24 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: MR2 MKIINA: 5SFE Head I took a close look at the 5SFE cylinder I have at home. This is a brand new bare head (no valves installed). It doesn't look as if there is much to be gained from a home porting job. The runners were very clean with no major casting flaws. The only thing I noticed was a slight shrouding at some of the exhast valve seats that could be ground away. It even looks to me as if it already has a 3 or 4-angle valve seat grinding, but I'm no valve job expert. The grinding looked slightly different from seat to seat, though. The surface inside the runners is the normal rough casting you'd expect. I've heard that for best performance you want the intake runners to be mirror smooth and the exhaust runners to be slightly rough. I.T. rules only allow manifold port matching, no porting, and you can't remove any material more than 1" from the ports, so I can't change the surface finish anyway. The combustion chamber is almost completely filled with valves and spark plug hole, but the remaining part of it almost looks as if it has some sort of coating on it. The casting is smoother there than in the runners. There is a small bump cast next to each spark plug hole. I suspect that it is designed to manage the intake swirl around the spark. The exhaust valves look really small to me. There is a fairly straight shot from the manifolds to the cylinders, although someone said that the valve angle on this head is fairly narrow compared to the 3SGE head. Bottom line: It looks as if Toyata made a pretty clean head from the factory and that home porting probably won't gain much. However, I'm sure that a pro head shop like Dan Paramore Racing (DPR) could make it better. Brad Burns '91T '93NA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 17:08:20 EST From: Daucott Subject: Re: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, do I need GZE injectors? In a message dated 97-12-24 23:11:42 EST, you write: > Anyone suggest any other injectors that will do the trick? I remember > Dave A saying that he changed to Celica 3SGE injectors or something? > I switched to the 280cc red Celica injectors since they were a direct swap from the original 180cc stock injectors. It was needed fuel with all my compression, head mods, and cams, but I'd be surprised if you'd need new injectors from just cams. I didn't see any need for injector changes when I changed just the cams. One thing we're considering for my autocrosser now is a rising rate regulator to up the stock injector output. Dave A. daucott@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:22:29 -0500 From: Phil Cutajar Subject: MR2 MKII bushings for street and autox Sorry for using announce for this, but I need some quick feedback. I just purchased new tokico illuminas and while I'm at it I'd like to upgrade the bushings, and I'd like to get them all ordered at the same time. Can anyone comment on what brands you are using and what you think of them. I'm considering TRD, Energy, and Suspension Techniques but I'm open to others. My usage is mostly street with as many local Autox's I can get into (about 1/month). Thanks. - -- Phil Cutajar '93 MR2-Turbo, Super White, 74k miles K&N FIPK, MR2-PP MBC mailto:Solo2_MR2@ibm.net my web page:http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/6213/index.htm ICQ #6032611 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:43:45 -0800 From: Mike Gruber Subject: MR2 MKI Seats Sammy Joseph said -- PS- I just noticed this: Anyone besides me notice how comfortable that Mk I driver's seat is? The car I had before had recaros, but my Mk I puts those to shame. It rivals the most comfortable seats I've ever sat in. Mike Gruber replies -- Yes, I've got a Recaro in my old 510, and I like the MKI seats much better for long drives. They *are* great seats. I sat in them for 32 hours straight once on a Spokane, Washington to South Haven, Michigan road trip. I was tired when I got there, but my back was fine! I put a Sparco racing bucket in my car for autocross, and I've used it on 800 mile drives, but I'm still considering putting in a "quick release" mounting system so I can swap in the stock seat for real road trips. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 11:44:46 -0500 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: MR2 MK1 timing belt? At 10:13 PM 12/29/97 PST, Todd klosnick wrote: >This is a stupid question but I must ask. > > What belt is the timing belt on the MK1? Is it the lower one of >the two belts on the passenger side. You can't see the timing belt on a 4A-G unless you remove the front cover of the engine. What you are looking at are the Water pump belt and the A/C P/S belts.... > How do I tell if it has been changed or not. The bottom belt says >DAYCO on it or something. The top belt I didn't look at close enough to >see what it said on it. Wether it has ever been changed is not the point. You need to inspect all belts regularly to check for wear etc... A good way to do this is to examine the contact side of the belt. > Will spraying belt dressing on the timing belt extend its life? > The reason I'm asking is b/c my 87 MR2 has 85,000 miles on it and >I bought it with 60,000 in 1994 of a used car dealer. I didn't ask him >if the belt has been changed or not so I'm a little concerned. You should be. recommended change interval is 50,000 miles... Stephen Gunter,1990 Levin, icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the Toyota Mods WebRing ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:47:18 -0800 From: Randy Chase Subject: Re: MR2 93T (convertable) PARTS MR2Turbo91 wrote: > > In a message dated 97-12-30 07:31:32 EST, bagdon@rust.net writes: > > << I prefer Milwaukee Sawzall Plus (with the quick-release blade coupler, > doesn't require a hex-tool) and 22tpi+ 8" blades. I could cut up an MR2 > small enough for two people to load it onto a flat bed, with no dollies, in > about 2 hours. Now, I call AAA, and have them flat-bed it to Auto > Shredders. > > Steve B. >> > > Is it just me, or does this post sound a little morbid to you guys, I mean, > this car was someone's BABY??? > > He sounds like my Human gross anatamy professor... "Why are you guys being so > delicate... It's just meat.... You're not going to hurt him, HE'S DEAD!! I > expect you to have the thorasic organs out in the next 15 minutes....." Hmmm...Dr. Kevorkian lives in Detroit. Steve moves to Detroit also and starts disecting MR2s. Coincidence? I think it was Kory that ended his post with "with my baby unconcious". I was horrified....then I realized he was talking about his MR2. Then I was more horrified. 8) Not. I think Steve is mostly right about the 1st car vs the fifth car. I know I was emotionally attached to my first few cars. I really like my MR2, but if it died, I would just go find another 91/92 with ABS and a hardtop or sunroof. Randy Chase '91 MR2 N/A ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 10:50:17 -0600 From: "John" Subject: MR2 Assistance Needed With Oil Leak I bought a '85 a couple of months ago for my son, soon to be a driver (watch-out SE Texas!). It had been sitting for 5+ years. After pulling the fuel tank to replace the fuel pump we found just about everything else to work... Shortly there after we found that we had a bad head gasket and went on to replace that (found the exhaust manifold to be cracked at the #4 cylinder) during the Thanksgiving weekend. All is fine to this point, now there is an oil leak that we can not locate. To date, we have replaced the oil hose lines to the oil cooler and inspected the oil transfer pipe to the cooler. The leak is probably not new as there is oil/dirt crud on the front side of the oil pan (passengers side of the oil pan) and all over the A/C compressor area. A couple of other observations, the leak rate, a drop here and there starts when the engine reaches operating temperature and "increases" briefly when the engine is shut down and then stops after about 10-15 minutes. I have tried to find the leak using a mirror and have ordered an UV additive. There is NO oil on the soundproofing along the passengers cabin sheet metal. The oil drops forward of the oil pan and about 2 inches on the passengers side of the oil pan drain plug as viewed from the rear. In general, I have found the car easy to work on, a little tough on the pocket book for parts and a ball to drive. John/Nelson White 135M+ ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #36