mr2-digest Monday, December 29 1997 Volume 02 : Number 032 MR2 MKII-T 91/92 vs. 93 MR2 Re: MKII A/C Removal Re: MR2 MKII Help a non-member with a 17x8 on front MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, dialed in at 98/100 now!!! Re: MR2 Re: MKII A/C Removal MR2 RE: manifold issue MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #31 MR2 Mk1: Website update MR2 Mk1: Website update MR2 VV-Ti MR2 MKII Registry MR2 181,000 miles and still going 007 MR2 (non-mr2 content) MR2 RE: manifold issue ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 08:54:22 -0500 From: Phil Cutajar Subject: MR2 MKII-T 91/92 vs. 93 Here we go again with a 91 vs. 93 thread again. Jeff, The only way to verify this for certain is with a Dyno. However, I think you're chasing wild geese here. The 3SGTE engine was not changed between 92/93, at least no changes that I've ever heard or read about. The one thing that was mentioned to me by John Broderick, and I never verified it, is that the compressor wheels on the turbo are slightly lighter on the 93+, making it a little quicker to spool-up. Again, I have not verified this. I suspect the difference may be in the suspensions, which makes the two cars feel different, and potentially makes you perceive a difference in power. Either that, or you had some problems with your 93... maybe ignition, EGR tube, tuning, etc. Just the other day, after installing my boost controller, I was driving my 93 down the street late at night and I looked down at my speedo and I was doing 100mph. I was shocked! I could have swore it felt like only 60. I've had others in my car ask me why we're going so slow, then I point out our actual speed and their reaction is always: gee it doesn't feel like we're going 80! >From other people who have dynoed their cars, including S. Bagdon (91), Jim Griffin(93), et. al. I don't recall there being much difference in their findings between the two model years. The SCC project also dynoed their 91 model against a 93, and besides the obvious ignition problems with their 91, they concluded that they were very similar. But if you still have your doubts and you buy that 91 in St. Pete I'd be happy to race you to confirm this :-) - -- Phil Cutajar '93 MR2-Turbo, Super White, 74k miles K&N FIPK, MR2-PP MBC mailto:Solo2_MR2@ibm.net my web page:http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Speedway/6213/index.htm ICQ #6032611 > Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:58:09 -0500 > From: "Ardell L. Simon" > Subject: MR2 The REAL difference between 91 and 93?? > > When I had all off my mods(GReddy turbo/IC/Exhaust/HKS BOV/FCD) on my 91 > turbo it was A LOT faster than my 93 with the same mods?? > > I talked to Michelle and Joel Clark over the weekend and they claim that > their 92T KILLS their 93T??? > > So what gives? You would think that the 93+ would be faster 0-6, but I am > starting to wonder??? ARe the 91/92 faster??? SOmething to do with the > ignition wires? timing? thoughts??? > > Jeff F > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 08:58:49 -0500 From: "Burns, James B." Subject: MR2 Re: MKII A/C Removal Randy Chase asked: >Anyone on this list removed their A/C? Brad, I know your car was without >A/C right? My '91T never had A/C -- it was a zero-option hardtop specifically ordered that way for racing. My '93NA once had A/C, but it was removed for showroom stock racing. I have the A/C system in a box. >I am curious about what it takes to remove it. I haven't done it, but it should be pretty easy. I'd guess have the freon removed and properly recycled, unbolt everything and remove it. Then you need to short the pressure sensor in the front compartment for the radiator fan to work properly. The fan on my '93NA ran continuously whenever the ignition was on, and I had to short the sensor and reinstall the A/C amplifier in order to get it to work correctly off the temperature sensor. I tried rewiring it without the amplifier to make it like the non-A/C circuitry, but I couldn't get it to work. You might also need a different accessory belt without the compressor. >Anyone have a >guess what the A/C weighs? Carter and Jim Thompson claimed about 35 lbs., but I weighed the compressor, evaporator, condenser, receiver, condensor fan, and piping and the total was about 45 lbs. Figure a few pounds of freon to fill it, and you get right around 50 lbs. The good thing is that it is pretty evenly distributed throughout the car -- compressor on the engine, evaporator under the glove box, and condensor and fan up front. Jim also said that the temperature sensor is different with the A/C system. >Just a thought. Not sure the savings would be worth the sacrifice of >personal comfort. Especially not if you live in So. Cal. (I grew up in Barstow and went to school at USC and had a Firebird with a black vinyl interior - ouch!). I'm planning to install the A/C system I have into my '91T A-stock car. I hate to add the 50 lbs. to my autocross car, but I spend more time driving it on the road. I also do a number of events in Harrisburg, PA which is a 1:45 drive for me, and doing it in August with no A/C was pretty miserable. The worst part was that driving on the freeway with the windows down gets noisy, especially with a straight pipe exhaust. Carter Thompson's car is just like mine -- a '91T zero-option hardtop, and he installed an A/C into his. It doesn't seem to slow him down too much. Also, the Baileys' car has A/C and cruise and they are fairly competitive. Cruise is the other option I'd like to have. Brad Burns '91T, A-stock '93NA, SSB ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:46:06 +0200 From: "Kostas G.D.Chryssos Ph.D." Subject: Re: MR2 MKII Help a non-member with a 17x8 on front At 00:58 28/12/1997 -0800, you wrote: >a.ting, I am sending this to the MR2 list. Hopefully they can >help. > > >If you have an answer, please e-mail a.ting@juno.com > >I found your "handy-dandy" wheel offset calculator on the >internet. My >question is this: Do you know if a 17x8 wheel with a 38mm offset >will >fit the front of a 1992 MR2? Your calculator states that the >inside >space will be reduced 18mm from stock. Is this considered >significant >for an MR2? I plan on fitting a 215/40 tire to this new wheel... > >My e-mail address is: a.ting@juno.com > >thanks >-- >Mark Sink >----------- >http://toy4two.home.mindspring.com/ >Modified '87 MR2 & '93 MR2 Turbo I have installed sometime ago a 17x8 rim on the front with a 42 mm offset and was very very close to rub on the shock absorber ( the side of it). The 38 mm will for sure fit as this will bring the rim 4 mm towards the outside and away from the shock absorber body. Now for the 215/40 tire, this did NOT fit my 42 mm offset. It rubbed on the shock body and had to use 205 size. Still it was very close. Try a used tire to find out as again the 38 mm leaves some additional space free. Regards, Kostas G.D.Chryssos Ph.D. ELFON Ltd., 30 Ikarias str., GLYFADA 16675 Athens, HELLAS (GREECE) Tel: ++ 30-1-9628212 Fax: ++ 30-1-9649833 e-mail: sv1bt@compulink.gr / sv1bt@otenet.gr ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 01:53:40 +1000 From: Robin San Subject: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, dialed in at 98/100 now!!! hi guys Well I finally managed to get the time to dial in the TRD 272s at the TRD recommended 98/100 timing, I was on 105/107 before and that felt really good. At 98/100 the idle is a bit rougher and there doesnt seem to be anywhere near as much torque under 4000RPM, how ever there is a bit more topend above 6000rpm. I havent had a chance to play with the ignition timing much yet, but Im getting the feeling that the 98/100 timing for the cams is a bit too wild, it basically feels that the engine comes on song after 6000rpm, not much good if you got a 7700 cutout. At 105/107 there was hardly any loss of bottom end torque and Midrange and top end were about 10% up. Does this all sound right? I know Stephen G. gets his 272s to idle at 800rpm, I cant get the idle below 1100 rpm. Could that timing of 98/100 that TRD recommend be for a race car that can rev above 7700rpm? just seems like too much of a trade off for the road, the engine feels a bit too highly strung. If anyone has tried these cams at different cam timing, lemme know what you found. Am I correct in assuming that the more advaced the intake cam (105/107 to 98/100) and the more retarded the exhaust cam, the better the top end? thanks for any help Seeya Robin San 89 Mk1 NA ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:57:17 -0500 From: Steve Bagdon Subject: Re: MR2 Re: MKII A/C Removal Burns, James B. wrote: > You might > also need a different accessory belt without the compressor. 4A-GE - just remove the belt 4A-GZE - need an alternator only belt 3S-GTE - just remove the helt 5S-FE - just remove the belt Steve B. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 07:21:31 -0800 From: Troy Pummill Subject: MR2 RE: manifold issue Terry... I'm back again... OK, I've read the handbook and I've obviously mistaken the contents. These are the contents for the 97 warranty, right? I'd like to see the contents of the modified warranty for 98. Any chance of getting that?? Thanks... Troy >---------- >From: TerrySaltzman@home.com[SMTP:TerrySaltzman@home.com] >Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 9:25 AM >To: Troy Pummill; bpj@sj.bigger.net; temmel@sdcc6.ucsd.edu; >terrysaltzman@home.com; randyc@pacbell.net; pferet@ix.netcom.com; >QCKMR2@mci2000.com; joedyer@worldnet.att.net; svogeding@earthlink.net; >DeMello7@aol.com; CanSC@msn.com; MR2Turbo91@aol.com; sdsportcycle@juno.com; >supraturbo@worldnet.att.net; mr2-interest@mr2.com >Subject: manifold issue > > > >Leaky Exhaust Peoples (LEPs), > > i have compiled a mailing list of all folks who responded to the >manifold issue of late. these addresses have come to me as of 12/27 >and 12/28. feel free to ask me to be removed from this list if you no >longer benefit or care to be on it. this was also done in response to >the "MR2 digest" apparently being "down" this weekend (christmas >weekend). > > many questions, which i do not have the answers, merely specific >info that i have garnished from my local dealer (Kearney Mesa Toyota >= KMT, in San Diego.) most of you have received this info already. > > Joe Dyer (SF) mention something about the dealer being required to >honor all warranty commitments after 1997 regardless of year issued. > > Like i mentioned before, i will speak again with the service manager >(Denny Politee) at KMT tomorrow to find out more stuff. he seemed >very interested in the procedures to follow now that the "language" >has changed in the 98 "Toyota Warranty Pocket Handbook". we should >all go to our respective dealers and find out our rights due. > if i appear a touch over-reactive thats due to the fact if factory >manages to get out of its warranty duties its could cost us (you) >~1200. > > if anyone finds out any info please respond via general cc (this >list) so all may stay informed and lighten. in addition, my burden of >responding to all will be less time consuming. > >again, here is the url that Jefferson V (love that name) so kindly >created for this purpose (nice photo of a 2 i might add, but no >driver?) ckitout: > > >http://home.earthlink.net/~svogeding/broken.htm > > >later- >terry > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 07:21:16 -0800 From: Kevin Lee Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #31 Hondas are pretty fast if you hang out in the Richmond District in San Francisco. Every Friday and Saturday nights, it's drag racing on Geary Boulevard. I saw lots of Honda's pulled over by SFPD this time. ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 97 15:21:59 +0000 From: Jorn Innset Subject: MR2 Mk1: Website update As promised earlier, I've updated my Website once again, with the following additions: - - Chipping the 4A-GE, including dyno charts - - Misc. pics of my cockpit (:-D) including Momo wheel, gearknob, pedals - - Pictures of my Momo Ferrari Engineering rims - - Picture of the HKS Super Powerflow induction kit - - Picture of VDO gauges mounted in the cockpit - - Pictures of the clear corner lights for the Mk1 on the car - - Picture of the Autostyle custom mats - - Pictures of stylingkits for both Mk1 and Mk2 from the Danish company Scandinavian Car Styling (including a hairy Ferrari conversion kit for the Mk2) Enjoy! Go to http://home.sol.no/~jorni Jorn - -- __ Amiga /// | Jorn Innset /// | jinnset@online.no __ /// | http://home.sol.no/~jorni \\\/// | Thor \XX/ | '87 Mk1 NA, 0-100 km/h: 7.46s ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 97 16:32:09 +0000 From: Jorn Innset Subject: MR2 Mk1: Website update (Sorry if this is a repost, but my mailserver is acting up on me...) As promised earlier, I've updated my Website once again, with the following additions: - - Chipping the 4A-GE, including dyno charts - - Misc. pics of my cockpit (:-D) including Momo wheel, gearknob, pedals - - Pictures of my Momo Ferrari Engineering rims - - Picture of the HKS Super Powerflow induction kit - - Picture of VDO gauges mounted in the cockpit - - Pictures of the clear corner lights for the Mk1 on the car - - Picture of the Autostyle custom mats - - Pictures of stylingkits for both Mk1 and Mk2 from the Danish company Scandinavian Car Styling (including a hairy Ferrari conversion kit for the Mk2) Enjoy! Go to http://home.sol.no/~jorni Jorn - -- __ Amiga /// | Jorn Innset /// | jinnset@online.no __ /// | http://home.sol.no/~jorni \\\/// | Thor \XX/ | '87 Mk1 NA, 0-100 km/h: 7.46s ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:52:48 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 VV-Ti > Toyota says it plans to export the VVT-i engine to the USA. Ah, man, that means that I'm going to have to start looking for an MR2 with a blown engine and a new Celica that's been totalled!!! Could I run a VVT-i NA in C stock?? I don't think so :) David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/RMS S.P/RMS MBC 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 09:54:16 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 MKII Registry Hi everyone. The registry is up and I'll eventually have a form on the page for new entries (my server is still working out the bugs in that....). Until then, send entries to me via my email address. I'm open to suggestions as to format....I've already gotten some complaints. The plan is to list cars by production month, which is why there are a bunch of months with nothing under them (need car info.....). I'm especially interested in cars that have been destroyed and removed from the road since this lets us know how far down the numbers are (considering that there were over 120K MKIIs as of 10/94, it'll take a lot of whittling). If you don't want a link to your email, just tell me and it will just go in as info. I'll put as much or as little as you're willing to provide, but I think this could be a nice tool to have in the future. I'll quit rambling. Check it out and let me know what you think. I look forward to your entries. Any appended pics will also be linked. It's at http://www.twosrus.com/registry.htm David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/RMS S.P/RMS MBC 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 10:07:05 -0600 From: "Scott McBurney" Subject: MR2 181,000 miles and still going I gotta love my 91 MR2. 5000 miles in 2.5 weeks, and its still running like a charm! And I see the digest has now moved. Now I just have to finish reading through the 90 digests that I missed! Scott McBurney email: mr2_man@compuserve.com or: scott@dewar.com web: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/mr2_man 1991 MR2 Automatic, 181,000 miles License: QUIK MR 2 1989 MR2 Supercharged, 66,000 miles License: QUIK SC 2 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 08:07:30 -0800 From: Troy Pummill Subject: 007 MR2 (non-mr2 content) hey, did I hear Kevlar???? maybe we should all do this mod.. Kevlar, lightweight bulletproof bodys... We could shave off a few pounds, and unless our foe is carrying a howitzer in his scoop, we could insult whoever we wanted.... Austin- dreaming of the the next James Bond car, a 98 MR2T with kevlar body, Side engine scoop with rocket launchers, rear Greddy exhaust/oil release system. front PIAA fog light/laser system, and the Yokohama AVS-IS (IS for integrated Spikes) for snow travel..... yeah...... Yeah, this sounds like a great idea. Remember that post(er) from South America earlier in the year who said he had to out-run gunmen in his MR2 (something like 10 bulletholes in his car)? I think he would have benefited from this option. I think that we also should include 2 HARMs (Homing? Anti-Radar Missle). Boy will that cop get a BIG surprise when he pulls the trigger on the radar gun! :-) Troy, 94T Super Red mailto:trop@hitachi.com http://members.aol.com > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 08:15:41 -0800 From: Troy Pummill Subject: MR2 RE: manifold issue Terry, New bit of news in. I know that all of this info is coming from different sources, so YMMV. Kevin, my former Service Advisor, now Assistant Service Manager, says that the new emissions warranty rules apply only to 98 model cars. He states that the warranty that the car is released with stays with it for the life of the car, Toyota cannot change them along the way. I'm not sure this clears the water, however, this makes sense to me.... Troy >---------- >From: TerrySaltzman@home.com[SMTP:TerrySaltzman@home.com] >Sent: Sunday, December 28, 1997 9:25 AM >To: Troy Pummill; bpj@sj.bigger.net; temmel@sdcc6.ucsd.edu; >terrysaltzman@home.com; randyc@pacbell.net; pferet@ix.netcom.com; >QCKMR2@mci2000.com; joedyer@worldnet.att.net; svogeding@earthlink.net; >DeMello7@aol.com; CanSC@msn.com; MR2Turbo91@aol.com; sdsportcycle@juno.com; >supraturbo@worldnet.att.net; mr2-interest@mr2.com >Subject: manifold issue > > > >Leaky Exhaust Peoples (LEPs), > > i have compiled a mailing list of all folks who responded to the >manifold issue of late. these addresses have come to me as of 12/27 >and 12/28. feel free to ask me to be removed from this list if you no >longer benefit or care to be on it. this was also done in response to >the "MR2 digest" apparently being "down" this weekend (christmas >weekend). > > many questions, which i do not have the answers, merely specific >info that i have garnished from my local dealer (Kearney Mesa Toyota >= KMT, in San Diego.) most of you have received this info already. > > Joe Dyer (SF) mention something about the dealer being required to >honor all warranty commitments after 1997 regardless of year issued. > > Like i mentioned before, i will speak again with the service manager >(Denny Politee) at KMT tomorrow to find out more stuff. he seemed >very interested in the procedures to follow now that the "language" >has changed in the 98 "Toyota Warranty Pocket Handbook". we should >all go to our respective dealers and find out our rights due. > if i appear a touch over-reactive thats due to the fact if factory >manages to get out of its warranty duties its could cost us (you) >~1200. > > if anyone finds out any info please respond via general cc (this >list) so all may stay informed and lighten. in addition, my burden of >responding to all will be less time consuming. > >again, here is the url that Jefferson V (love that name) so kindly >created for this purpose (nice photo of a 2 i might add, but no >driver?) ckitout: > > >http://home.earthlink.net/~svogeding/broken.htm > > >later- >terry > ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #32