mr2-digest Thursday, December 25 1997 Volume 02 : Number 023 RE: MR2 MKI Leafcharger, new idea RE: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, do I need GZE injectors? Re: MR2 (all models) grinding/skip shifting MR2 re: MR2 Color MR2:MkII: Brooklands MR2 book 4 Sale MR2 MkII: Would dino juice hurt? MR2 Re: Poppin' fresh wires? Re: MR2 re: MR2 Color MR2 Oceanworks in berkeley MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #21 Fwd: MR2 mk1_mod Fwd: MR2 Mk1 Suspension Techniques springs Fwd: MR2 MR-2: MKI Sparkplug wires popping out ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 20:45:58 -0500 From: Chris Conlon Subject: RE: MR2 MKI Leafcharger, new idea Randy wrote: > ... > If the intake is operating at X CFM already, the fan must push more air > to create a positive pressure, right? In other words, if the intake is > drawing air at 100cfm, and you place a 100cfm fan in front of the > intake, the fan doesn't push 200cfm, right? The back-of-the-envelope # I can remember is 100HP to 140CFM of air. (I'll check this on Monday, but it's ballpark-correct.) So a 250CFM blower is at least plausible... > Some can pump volume, some > can pump pressure. Some fans can move a lot of air, but not handle > backpressure well. There is usually a trade-off here. This is a key point; before you plunk down your $$ for a blower, get the airflow vs. backpressure graph, which the manufacturer should be able to provide for you. Often your very high flowing fans putz out under (back)pressure *much* more than some lower-flowing blowers. I think you should design for around 0.75 to 1.5 psi of pressure in the intake. This may seem low (at most a 10% gain over NA) but I think meeting even this spec for continuous duty will be work enough. (BTW 1 psi = 27.68 inches of water, or 51.7 millimeters of mercury, you'll probably need these conversions to read the pressure/flow graph.) > Perhaps one could find a way > to store the energy. To be economical, I see this as only for "burst" > mode use. Um, Randy, it's called a battery ;) (Sorry, just kidding, had to say it.) But seriously you could build a separate electrical system soley for the blower, that's charged from the normal system. You'd want to use a lighter battery, of course, also one designed for fast discharge and deep cycle operation... Ahh so many details. Designing for short-burst use seems much more feasible. You can draw a lot more power for a few seconds at a time - this will make some things easier. > Like Terry, I was going to stay out of this, but I would like to mention > that there is no free lunch. > ... I have to agree here. There might be a lunch that's already paid for but was left uneaten though, and that's intake length tuning. Maybe someone more knowledgable (Jeffrey?) will comment on this? It seems like the kind of thing that could help, but the effort required is probably way more than the benefit. Best of luck to everyone involved - someday I may do a similar system for my friend's 4-cyl Olds boat (nickname: Tha' Ghetto Cruiser). Chris C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:01:57 -0500 From: Chris Conlon Subject: RE: MR2 MK1: TRD 272 cams, do I need GZE injectors? Robin wrote: > With the 272 TRD cams I think the engine is running a bit lean from what > I can tell from the plugs, even with the MAF mod. Will changing to GZE > injectors make a difference? > I was told that the flow of the 4AGE injectors are 150 and the GZE > ijecotrs flow 200 something? Will that mean that the GZE injectors will > flow more fuel all the time or will that mean that there is more > headroom available in the injector if I need it on full throttle etc.. If memory serves the 4A-GE injectors are 200cc/minute and the 4A-GZE are 360cc/minute, nearly twice as much. Basically you'll get almost twice as much fuel when running open loop. In theory the ECU will "figure it out" during closed loop operation, but I'm not sure how wide a range of adjustment the ECU has before it decides something (like O2 sensor) is broken. My personal **guess** is this is too much extra fuel. I would suggest you look into adjustable fuel pressure regulators, or a fixed one with a slightly higher pressure. This should let you get a little more fuel, in fine increments up to 10-15% depending on your fuel pump. (Unless you really think your engine is flowing 75% more air with the new cams... in which case I want a set!!) > Anyone suggest any other injectors that will do the trick? I remember > Dave A saying that he changed to Celica 3SGE injectors or something? This could work well too, sorry I can't suggest a specific injector type. A variable fuel pressure regulator might be easier to tweak, tho, if you feel that much tweaking will be required. Also suggested on DIY_EFI... David Piper wrote: > If your vane type AFM is maxed out, try the Vortech super FMU. This is a > $260 pressure regulator that is adjustable for rate and both intercept > points ie. you can suppress the fuel rail press during off boost to > compensate for larger inj.; adj the rate of press increase during boost and > also limit the max press increase. > > Test your fuel pump for adequate flow vs press. The Bosche pump is good for > 50 GPH at 70 psig. Since flow increases with the sq root of press, you can > increase fuel flow 35% at 70 psig compared to a normal 38 psig. The inj > flow rate is proportional to the differential pressure; fuel rail minus > manifold press ( or vacuum.) > > TurboDave Chris C. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 18:05:46 -0800 (PST) From: myt@cypress.com (Micky Thutiyakul / Product Engineer) Subject: Re: MR2 (all models) grinding/skip shifting > From: "Tommy Guttmann" > Subject: MR2 (all models) grinding/skip shifting > > Can't resist asking...why are you guys skipping gears? > Well, these are my reasons: I enjoy shooting up a Hwy on-ramp in 3rd gear. After a successful merge at 65~75 mph, I shift directly to 5th since I know I won't be accelerating anymore. While cruising around 65 mph, if I see a guy in the mirror with aggressive tendencies (i.e. planning on cutting me off in a rude manner). I do a 5th to 3rd gear shift to head him off at the pass... For some reason, the 2nd gear synchro is getting a bit notchy (unusual being that I don't use it that much except to get to 3rd). But all other gears are fine. > > The potential long term negative impact of this practice is likely as > destructive as that of downshifting without properly mating engine > speed to road speed...with the difference that at least that is occurring > without a load on the engine. A lot of clutch slipping should help. > > I've never felt my car had too many gears...in fact, quite the opposite. > Dragged raced against a hot rodded 1st generation RX7 once. I was shifting to 3rd when he made his first shift. How do I know??? We were neck to neck at the start. Then he shot by me as I was shifting to 2nd... :-( Those are the times when I wished I had a single speed transmission... Micky '89 SC MR2 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:05:49 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: MR2 re: MR2 Color At 12:40 AM 12/25/97 -0500, Ardell L. Simon wrote: Jeff Fazio wrote: Can someone please check out this photo and tell me what color this MKII is??? I have never seen this color before?? http://www.autobytel.com/cyberstore/detail.cfm?used_id=52896&id=edmunds&ZIP_ code_ch=19610 Jeff, The color of that MR2, according to the 1993 Toyota MR2 propaganda booklet is called "Metallic Blue" and is available with either Blue (cloth) or Black (leather trim package only). - ------- Joe Pearlstein mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:07:25 -0500 From: Jon or Cary Robinson Subject: MR2:MkII: Brooklands MR2 book 4 Sale Hi Y'all, Mr.2 and I sure hope everyone enjoyed their Christmas and wish you a Happy New Year. Unfortunately, my sister-in-law didn't realize I already had a copy of Brookland's '84-'88 MR2 book so I have an extra for sale to the first person interested. Please e-mail me privately concerning the sale. Happy Driving, Jon Robinson White '91 NA (with a beautiful new D.H. cupholder) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:16:04 -0500 From: Jon or Cary Robinson Subject: MR2 MkII: Would dino juice hurt? Hi All, I don't plan on doing this but ever in the case that I have to, I need peace of mind. Right now, I've been running Mobil 1 10W-30 in my 2 ever since I bought the care two years ago. If I ever had to face the situation of replacing my oil with dino juice, will that really screw things up? Should I just go ahead and throw 4 qts of "spare" Mobil 1 in my trunk? Jon R. White '91 NA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:22:39 -0500 From: Jon or Cary Robinson Subject: MR2 Re: Poppin' fresh wires? Mike and digest, I've had this problem ever since I installed my Nology's. My #2 plug wire keeps popping off every once in a while. And even more frustrating is when the rubber boot at the end of the plug sticks inside the chamber and I have to fish it out with a coat hanger! I believe I remember reading on some guy's webpage that torqueing the plugs down several lbs tighter does the trick so I do that and the problem goes away for several months. Good luck and take care, Jon R. White '91 NA (with new cupholder and awesome feeling velvetty tray all-in-one) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 18:32:45 -0008 From: TerrySaltzman@home.com Subject: Re: MR2 re: MR2 Color > I have never seen this color before?? > > http://www.autobytel.com/cyberstore/detail.cfm?used_id=52896&id=edmunds&ZIP_ > code_ch=19610 > > Jeff, > The color of that MR2, according to the 1993 Toyota MR2 propaganda booklet > is called "Metallic Blue" and is available with either Blue (cloth) or > Black (leather trim package only). interesting, my 92 propaganda leaflet sez "Nautical Blue Metallic" they must have changed this when they decided to give my SMG or "Bonus" paint, option to the masses in 93+. feeling better now, ready to do my christmas shopping tomorrow- terry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 18:45:06 -0800 From: Hanley Leung Subject: MR2 Oceanworks in berkeley I need to take my car in for service and some tuning, and someone mentioned oceanworks as a nice place. Can anyone who has had expereince with these guys mail me. thanx hanley leung 91MR2Turbo - -- mailto:htleung@uclink.berkeley.edu http://www-inst.eecs.berkeley.edu/~hanley icq:825743 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 21:44:29 EST From: DAZDP Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #21 who here agrees with me that a mk1 has a better shifter feel than the turbo mk2? i personally have both, 85 mki and 91mkIIturbo ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:24:12 EST From: FZZR Subject: Fwd: MR2 mk1_mod This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_883106652_boundary Content-ID: <0_883106652@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 97-12-25 10:27:30 EST, FZZR writes: << << , i stumbled on some centrifugal blower used for restaurant venting system. these things can blow air at about ~1000 to 10,000 cfm of air. also, from the pictures, it looks like a real blower connected by a belt to an electric motor. so in a sense it looks like a supercharger connected to a spinning electric motor via a belt. soooo, i am planning to check some restaurant equipment seller to see if they can only sell the blower. if these units are with in my budget, then our quest for cheap horsepower is beginning to materialize :) wish me luck. >> Heck where do you think the granatelli familys Paxton came from. They used to make air blowers for giant navy ships. Then one day (I don't know the exact history) the paxton centrifigul blower was born. ****************************************************** >> - --part0_883106652_boundary Content-ID: <0_883106652@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FZZR Return-path: To: aaisporn@rohan.sdsu.edu Subject: Re: MR2 mk1_mod Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 10:27:30 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-25 04:46:11 EST, you write: << , i stumbled on some centrifugal blower used for restaurant venting system. these things can blow air at about ~1000 to 10,000 cfm of air. also, from the pictures, it looks like a real blower connected by a belt to an electric motor. so in a sense it looks like a supercharger connected to a spinning electric motor via a belt. soooo, i am planning to check some restaurant equipment seller to see if they can only sell the blower. if these units are with in my budget, then our quest for cheap horsepower is beginning to materialize :) wish me luck. >> Heck where do you think the granatelli familys Paxton came from. They used to make air blowers for giant navy ships. Then one day (I don't know the exact history) the paxton centrifigul blower was born. ****************************************************** Chuck FZZR@AOL.COM 88 MR2 SC (149,000 miles) 89 Yamaha FZR 1000 (for sale) ******************************************************** - --part0_883106652_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:31:03 EST From: FZZR Subject: Fwd: MR2 Mk1 Suspension Techniques springs This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_883107064_boundary Content-ID: <0_883107064@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 97-12-25 10:22:55 EST, FZZR writes: << < Does anyone use Suspension Techniques springs on their Mk1? I'm interested in how much lower the car will be with these. I considered Intrax (1.5" drop), but many have tried to discourage me. Some claim that the fact that Intrax springs are made somewhere in Africa, then they are inferior in some way. Whatever. I would like more info. on the ST springs if anyone has them. >> Yes I use Suspension Techniques springs on my 88 SC. The drop the car from 1 to 1.5". Sorry I didn't measure the exact difference before and afer. I use them with Tokico struts and they work great. Matter of fact the springs are on sale at JCWhitney for $139.90. I even believe they now have free shipping for anything over $100. If you order from them just make sure to specify Front then the part number and rear and the part number. They sell them by the pair and they use the same part number. I received two front pairs the first time. But they took care of me and sent the right ones and even gave me a $30.00 gift certificate for there mistake. Well here is the info you will need. 1 pair is $69.99. You must state make, year, model, body style, engine size, front or rear and stock # stock number# 55PZ5286U PAGE# 71 Catalog # in yellow 95JD catalog# in blue PMAA2 That should do it. If you havn't ordered from them before they ask for all that silly info. There phone number is 1-312-431-6102 24 hours a day. - --part0_883107064_boundary Content-ID: <0_883107064@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FZZR Return-path: To: Kurowski@aol.com Subject: Re: MR2 Mk1 Suspension Techniques springs Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 10:22:55 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-25 01:05:03 EST, you write: << Does anyone use Suspension Techniques springs on their Mk1? I'm interested in how much lower the car will be with these. I considered Intrax (1.5" drop), but many have tried to discourage me. Some claim that the fact that Intrax springs are made somewhere in Africa, then they are inferior in some way. Whatever. I would like more info. on the ST springs if anyone has them. >> Yes I use Suspension Techniques springs on my 88 SC. The drop the car from 1 to 1.5". Sorry I didn't measure the exact difference before and afer. I use them with Tokico struts and they work great. Matter of fact the springs are on sale at JCWhitney for $139.90. I even believe they now have free shipping for anything over $100. If you order from them just make sure to specify Front then the part number and rear and the part number. They sell them by the pair and they use the same part number. I received two front pairs the first time. But they took care of me and sent the right ones and even gave me a $30.00 gift certificate for there mistake. Well here is the info you will need. 1 pair is $69.99. You must state make, year, model, body style, engine size, front or rear and stock # stock number# 55PZ5286U PAGE# 71 Catalog # in yellow 95JD catalog# in blue PMAA2 That should do it. If you havn't ordered from them before they ask for all that silly info. There phone number is 1-312-431-6102 24 hours a day. - --part0_883107064_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:38:36 EST From: FZZR Subject: Fwd: MR2 MR-2: MKI Sparkplug wires popping out This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_883107516_boundary Content-ID: <0_883107516@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 97-12-25 22:37:57 EST, FZZR writes: << << Does anyone else have trouble with there plug wires popping off the plugs? Sometimes it makes it miss, ill probably just buy some 8mm nology's or something. Does anyone know where i can get a good deal on some nology's? thanks Mike Craig 86 MR-2 >> I had this same problem with my 4age in my FX16. It seemed that if I reved it high when it was still fairly cold the off they would come. I think maybe there is some kind of pressure difference between the outside air and the air inside the valve cover when they are cold that causes them to pop off. That is all I can come up with. I never solved the problem. Amazingly enough it doesn't happen with my MR2 sc. Weird.. Chuck - --part0_883107516_boundary Content-ID: <0_883107516@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: FZZR Return-path: To: SportRidr@aol.com Subject: Re: MR2 MR-2: MKI Sparkplug wires popping out Date: Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:37:57 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-25 12:39:13 EST, you write: << Does anyone else have trouble with there plug wires popping off the plugs? Sometimes it makes it miss, ill probably just buy some 8mm nology's or something. Does anyone know where i can get a good deal on some nology's? thanks Mike Craig 86 MR-2 >> I had this same problem with my 4age in my FX16. It seemed that if I reved it high when it was still fairly cold the off they would come. I think maybe there is some kind of pressure difference between the outside air and the air inside the valve cover when they are cold that causes them to pop off. That is all I can come up with. I never solved the problem. Amazingly enough it doesn't happen with my MR2 sc. Weird.. Chuck - --part0_883107516_boundary-- ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #23