mr2-digest Sunday, December 21 1997 Volume 02 : Number 010 MR2 Re: LeafCharger/Handling Enhancement! Re: MR2 Subject Headers MR2 Re: LeafCharger MR2 Re: MK1: TRD cams, I cant get the dowel pin out Re: MR2 Re: LeafCharger/Handling Enhancement! MR2 Re: MK2 5SFE Stuff Re: MR2 Subject Headers MR2 Mk1 short shifter kit (last call?) Atlantic City MR2 Gathering, Dec. 28th MR2 5sfe turbo Re: MR2 Subject Headers MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #4 MR2 MKII upgrade weekend MR2 New Toyota logo. MR2 Checking Timing, Fuel Pressure on Mk-II Turbo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 12:13:13 -0600 From: Bernie Long Subject: MR2 Re: LeafCharger/Handling Enhancement! S and K Bagdon wrote: > > >hehe you guys are crazy.. Aren't leafblowers loud? Or maybe I'm thinking > >about the gas ones. > > Now*there's* an idea! My largest concerns with the leaf-blower idea is the > current draw and CFM flow rates. But, if you used a gas-blower leaf-blower, > you could easily vary the leaf blowers CFM output (by tying the throttle > cable tot he leaf blower), and there would be *zero* power draw from the > electrical system... > > Steve B. Why not go a step further? You could install skirts on the bottom of the car, and duct the intake of the leaf blower to the underside of the car! You would be the most popular guy at an autocross! Just think how clean the course would be after you ran! :-) My ! key is stuck!! Merry Christmas! Bernie! ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:05:02 -0600 From: "Andrew P. Tasi" Subject: Re: MR2 Subject Headers "MR2" should now be appearing in the MR-2 interest subject headings automatically. I apologize for any inconvenience or missed material this caused. Thank You, Andrew P. Tasi ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:01:54 -0500 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: MR2 Re: LeafCharger At 08:07 PM 12/20/97 -0400, S and K Bagdon wrote: >>hehe you guys are crazy.. Aren't leafblowers loud? Or maybe I'm thinking >>about the gas ones. > >Now*there's* an idea! My largest concerns with the leaf-blower idea is the >current draw and CFM flow rates. But, if you used a gas-blower leaf-blower, >you could easily vary the leaf blowers CFM output (by tying the throttle >cable tot he leaf blower), and there would be *zero* power draw from the >electrical system... > >Steve B. > Bingo! There you go Steve, a mod just up your alley. Can you say "Christmas Project"? :) Stephen Gunter,1990 Levin, icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the Toyota Mods WebRing ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 14:08:15 -0500 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: MR2 Re: MK1: TRD cams, I cant get the dowel pin out At 02:21 AM 12/22/97 +1000, Robin San wrote: >Hi guys > >Im in the middle of putting the cams in but I have hit a hurdle. I cant >get the dowel pin out of the factory cams and the TRD ones dont have a >pin. > >Im going to try to get a pair tomorrow, anyone have any ideas how to get >the pin out or where I might be able to get another set 2 days before >christmas? > >Thanks >Robin >89 MK1 NA MR2 Robin, Use a Vice Grip pliers. They are difficult to get out, but will come out. Grip the dowel with the side of the pliers and move the dowel from left to right, while gently pulling. That should get them out. Stephen Gunter,1990 Levin, icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the Toyota Mods WebRing ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 15:16:36 EST From: WeyrAbouts Subject: Re: MR2 Re: LeafCharger/Handling Enhancement! In a message dated 97-12-21 13:19:04 EST, blong@gte.net writes: << Why not go a step further? You could install skirts on the bottom of the car, and duct the intake of the leaf blower to the underside of the car! You would be the most popular guy at an autocross! Just think how clean the course would be after you ran! :-)>> Or you could start a new business to finance your MR2 habit ... "Hey, Lady, I'll clear your lawn for $20 in 10 minutes, hope you don't mind the tire tracks in the grass ..." Lj ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:06:20 EST From: DaddyCat1 Subject: MR2 Re: MK2 5SFE Stuff This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --part0_882738381_boundary Content-ID: <0_882738381@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > In a message dated 97-12-19 11:15:49 EST, Brad Burns wrote: > > > > I finally got my '93NA registered on Monday so I've been driving it this > > week, and I don't see why folks are complaining about the 5SFE. I've > > owned both '94 and '91 turbos (still have the '91), and I don't think > > the NA gives up that much to a stock turbo. For what it's worth, I agree with Brad. Driving Joyce's '93 NA and my (bone- stock w/17K miles at this point) '93 T back-to-back, I'm amazed at the NA's quickness and low-end grunt. Subjectively, I feel much more connected to the car/road than in the Turbo and love the instant throttle response. My only problem with the NA is how high it revs to maintain steady speeds over 60 mph. I use cruise control in lieu of a much-needed 6th gear to "disconnect" from the buzziness during everyday driving. On the other hand, the Turbo really shines on long sweepers and straight stretches--even with the throttle buried it never breaks a sweat and you just can't beat the turbo "rush"! Bottom line: I love both cars and appreciate their missions. This may be heresy but I see the Turbo as more of a (really visceral) touring car while the NA would be my choice for short-course or autocross. For boxing fans, I liken it to picking between two great champions-- Muhammad Ali (T) and Joe Frazier (NA). They're both GREAT cars that provide the most bang-for-the-buck we've experienced in 50+ combined years of driving in Europe, Asia, and all over the USA! Not to mention their owners... Cliff Skajem/Joyce Long, San Jose, California '93 NA, '93 T' '97 T&C Partsrunner - --part0_882738381_boundary Content-ID: <0_882738381@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline From: DaddyCat1 Return-path: To: BurnsJB1@central.SSD.JHUAPL.edu Subject: Re: 5SFE Stuff Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 15:17:40 EST Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 97-12-19 11:15:49 EST, Brad Burns wrote: > > I finally got my '93NA registered on Monday so I've been driving it this > week, and I don't see why folks are complaining about the 5SFE. I've > owned both '94 and '91 turbos (still have the '91), and I don't think > the NA gives up that much to a stock turbo. For what it's worth, I agree with Brad. Driving Joyce's '93 NA and my (bone- stock at this point) '93 T back-to-back, I'm amazed at the NA's quickness and low-end grunt. Subjectively, I feel much more connected to the car/road than in the Turbo and love the instant throttle response. My only problem with the NA is how high it revs to maintain steady speeds over 60 mph. I use cruise control in lieu of a much-needed 6th gear to "disconnect" from the buzziness during everyday driving. On the other hand, the Turbo really shines on long sweepers and straight stretches--even with the throttle buried it never breaks a sweat and you just can't beat the turbo "rush"! Bottom line: I love both cars and appreciate their missions. This may be heresy but I see the Turbo as more of a (really visceral) touring car while the NA would be my choice for short-course or autocross. For boxing fans, I liken it to picking between two great champions-- Muhammad Ali (T) and Joe Frazier (NA). They're both GREAT cars that provide the most bang-for-the-buck I've experienced in 27+ years of driving in Europe, Asia, and all over the USA! Not to mention their owners... Cliff Skajem/Joyce Long, San Jose, California '93 NA, '93 T' '97 T&C Partsrunner - --part0_882738381_boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 16:02:42 EST From: DaddyCat1 Subject: Re: MR2 Subject Headers In a message dated 97-12-21 14:02:02 EST, you write: > "MR2" should now be appearing in the MR-2 interest subject headings > automatically. I apologize for any inconvenience or missed material this > caused. > > Thank You, > Andrew P. Tasi Great! Now if folks would pls remember to use "MK1" or "MK2" as the first word in the subject lines, we'd really be in shape: "MR2 MK1 Dinglefloogles..." or "MR2 MK2 Whatchacallems" would really help browsers. We can do it, gang! Cliff ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 13:43:38 -0800 From: Jonathan Oellrich Subject: MR2 Mk1 short shifter kit (last call?) I'll stop taking up bandwidth shortly, but since I seem to be getting a lot of people trickling in slowly who want to get the short shift mod, I thought I should mention that I am about to start making the run and anyone else that wants one should email me quickly unless you want to wait a few months for the next set. I'll probably make one or two extra just in case, since there do seem to be people wanting them out of the blue every month or two since I started making them, but I'm not likely to have a chance to make more until March after this set so please, if you want one, let me know to make you one now! Lastly, (in order to properly beat this into the ground ;-) this is, again, a bracket, hardware, and instructions that can be installed by anyone in only a couple of minutes and shortens fore-aft throw by about an inch, or roughly 20%, adding a little extra feedback in the process (I always know when my car is not -quite- in reverse now) and costs $28. Thanks for the bandwidth, and thanks to all involved with keeping this great list running! Jon Oellrich '87 that wants Redline for Christmas ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 18:14:24 -0500 From: nu3y@CritPath.Org Subject: Atlantic City MR2 Gathering, Dec. 28th Roxanne and I woke this morning to a dead battery in the MR2. I almost gave up the idea of driving down to Atlantic City to check things out, but it seemed to hold enough of a charge to start up again, so we decided to drive down to A.C. and recharge the battery while checking out details there. Here is the itinerary... 1) Caravan down to A.C. with other MR2's going your way. Meet them halfway or whatever to make your drive to A.C. more enjoyable. Use the Digest to find out who's going your way. 2) 10:30 - 11:30 AM Meet just past The Flagship Hotel/Condo, which is in the Inlet area of Atlantic City. Directions - Once inside of A.C., take Atlantic Ave. (a major north/south street just 2 blocks from the Boardwalk) all the way up to the northern extreme (this means that the Atlantic Ocean is on your right driving up Atlantic Ave., for all you "directionally-challenged drivers". Follow Atlantic Ave. to the end where it bears around to the left. Now the inlet is alongside your right. You can see The Flagship Hotel/Condo about 5 blocks away from it as you are driving up Atlantic Avenue. There is an area to pull over just after the hotel and before the iron framework of a building that you will see on the right (this was the old "Hackney's Restaurant"). The end of the Boardwalk is on your right. This area is no longer a bad area. Just look for the other MR2's. 11:30 AM Drive down Pacific Avenue past all the casinos and all of the modern Atlantic City "action", head down through the southern part of A.C. and do a sight-seeing drive through Margate and Ventnor. Drive through an interesting section of primo real estate in Longport and wind up at "The Point", the southenmost tip of the island. There is another parking area there. Get out of the cars and enjoy the scenery. 1:00 PM Head back up to Atlantic City for lunch @ the best submarine/hoagie/zeppelin joint in the world called "White House Subs", which I heartily recommend. It is a world-famous place. There is a free parking lot across the street, and interestingly enough, the lot is owned by Bob Guccione (of Penthouse fame). 2:30 PM AT this point, we can park at a casino hotel and take a walk on the Boardwalk (maybe to the new Steel Pier), or if you want a quieter casino, go to Harrah's in the Marina district. Some of us aren't gamblers, so going to a Boardwalk casino might be best. Parking at all the A.C. casinos is $2.00 for the entire day, and that is actually a city fee, so you are covered at all the casinos if you keep your receipt. Please get in touch and let me know if you are coming. See you there next Sunday, December 28th! - ----- Joe Pearlstein '91 Crimson Red MKII, Past owner of '86 Super Red MKI Philadelphia, PA mailto:nu3y@critpath.org ICQ# 3480202 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Dec 1997 22:39:41 -0800 From: Greg Dimas Subject: MR2 5sfe turbo Thanks Mike Chou, for taking my side. I guess I'm not so crazy after all. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:29:17 -0500 From: Stephen Gunter Subject: Re: MR2 Subject Headers At 04:02 PM 12/21/97 EST, DaddyCat1 wrote: > >Great! Now if folks would pls remember to use "MK1" or "MK2" as the first word >in the subject lines, we'd really be in shape: "MR2 MK1 Dinglefloogles..." or >"MR2 MK2 Whatchacallems" would really help browsers. We can do it, gang! > >Cliff > Hey Cliff, I've been looking all over for MK1 Dinglefloogles, where did you find yours? Stephen Gunter,1990 Levin, icq 285675 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/7177 home of the Toyota Mods WebRing ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:38:27 -0800 From: Greg Dimas Subject: MR2 Re: mr2-digest V2 #4 Not to drive a wedge between the turbo and the n/a guys, but I am beginning to get the suspicion that the turbo guys are a little apprehensive about what we n/a guys may gain by supercharging the 5SFE. The fact that the Turbo guys are the ones who are trying to discourage the sc project makes me even more interested in the sc project. Thanks Patrick I think you've found a soft spot! > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 10:34:00 -0800 > From: psmith@mofo.com (Smith, Patrick E.) > Subject: RE: 5S-Fe Upgrades > > HI Digest > ---------- > > >I hate to bring this up, but isn't trying to pull a lot of power from an > >F-series head instead of install an G-series head, sort of like trying to > >pull a lot of power from an NA engine rather then just installing a Turbo > >engine? > > I think changing over engines will be a big problem in the long run, and a > SC kit sounds like more fun and will get more HP, than a turbo set up. If my > Paxton- friend is right , i should get about 60-90 HP, from the setup. That > puts me about 200-220HP 5S-FE, with LOTS of low end torque and no Turbo lag. > > >Generalizing what I've read so far, the F-series head is an 'economy' head, > >and an S-series head is a 'performance' head. Why are we trying to get > >performance from an economy head? > >Steve B. > > Because it's a challenge! And not everyone has $4000 to swap motors, much > less the time to do it. So upgrading what we have is a fun and unknown > road. Besides with a paxton SC kit, i "think" my 5S-FE will be faster than a > stock Turbo. WOW what a concept, a turbo seeing the back end of a 5S-FE all > the time. Just wait ........only time will tell > > Patrick SMith > http://www.isi.edu/~marsh/qckmr2.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 19:09:03 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 MKII upgrade weekend Greetings! I just got back from 24 hours with Jeff Bihn, and I now an official boost head. Here's what we did: 1. Swapped the stock B pipe and Trust exhaust for the first rms straight pipe. Throttle response was greatly improved, although I don't know about power output. Where I used to have a pause when trying to rev match for down shifts, there is none and it performs more like my SC in this respect. To everyone who ordered the rms kit, yours were on Jeff's garage floor and looked NICE. BTW, do you guys know how big 4.5" is???? Those tips are HUGE, and make the system a good bit louder than the one I got with 3" tips. As for the B pipe, we had to finally cut it in half after twenty minutes of trying to get it out according to the BGB. What a pain..... 2. INstalled a real boost gage. Just some observations on my stock boost gage, it pegged at 10psi (which is what my car was running with the FIPK and s.p.) and hit the bottom at 10" Hg (idle is 20" Hg on my car). The neutral line was indeed 0 psi, but most times the gage lagged so much that I was at 4psi before it leaped up above the neutral line. Bottom line....the stock gage is crap. 3. Manual boost controller. After playing with this, I ended up with it set at 13psi....at least in 1st and 2nd. In 3-5th gears, it jumps to 16psi. Any reason for the difference? 1st and 2nd are rock solid at 13, which is where I'd like to be in all gears.... 4. G Tech. A fun, license endangering device. Before mods, I did one run and got 539HP!!! The most reliable looking run turned out 115HP... and after mods I kept getting 168HP. Could my ignition have degraded that much over time and I just didn't notice it because it was gradual? Regardless, I'm going to try some new plugs, cap and rotor and see what I get. If these numbers are right and you figure that the 3 psi I came up in boost are good for around 24 HP, then the straight pipe gave 30HP. I think this is reasonable since the 2nd cat is VERY restrictive (take a look at how that pipe necks down to about 1.25" the next time you're under your car). Now all I have to do is get around to installing that Cartech intercooler that has been in my spare room for 11 months. Just need some fans (Jeff.....) Jeff was very helpful and I'd like to publicly thank him. He could have just shipped these to me and told me "You're on your own" but instead he let me come to Biloxi and lose $100 before we got started :) More power is a good thing...now I have to start modding the SC..... David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/Trust 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 18:33:26 -0800 From: "David Hawkins" Subject: MR2 New Toyota logo. Okay, with all this talk....WHAT new logo? The one on my 93 has been around for, like, 8 years. I don't consider that new. Is there an emblem that I haven't seen???????????? The sombrero T on my car doesn't look anything like the Pillsbury doughboy or a pregnant woman hailing a cab...I can see all the letters of Toyota in it if I bite my tongue really hard while closing my left eye and standing on one foot, but this ISN'T a new emblem!!!! Sorry for shouting...boy I feel better now :) David H. otgrouch@twosrus.com 93T FIPK/Trust 89SC Cupholder 66 Corvair 96 Cannondale R900 Spinergy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Dec 1997 21:41:04 -0500 From: Dave Inskeep Subject: MR2 Checking Timing, Fuel Pressure on Mk-II Turbo Hi, I've been having some problems with my '91 MkII Turbo and am working through the diagnostic steps in the BGB. Two things that it says to check are the timing and the fuel pressure. The book's description of checking the timing looks a bit simplified, it almost appears from the diagram that they've removed the engine from the car! The diagram that I'm referring to is on the top of page IG-16, or bottom of EM-11. If I'm seeing the diagram from the right point of view, it appears that the POV is from the passenger's side, in front of the engine, and intercooler should be in the way. Or, is the POV from underneath the car, and I need to remove the two under-engine covers to see this? I wanted to check to see if someone had a first-hand experience on how to do this before I started taking things off. If there's an easy way to do this, I'd love to hear it. The second question that I have is what kind of fuel pressure gauge to use. Will the standard fuel pressure gauge from an auto parts store work, or do I really need to get the SST? Any info that anyone has would be much appreciated. Thanks, Dave Inskeep skeep@gwis.com ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V2 #10