mr2-digest Wednesday, 31 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 100 `95 Turbo found for sale Camry wheels as snow-tire wheels for '91 Turbo? Re:optimum shift points stickers Re: '91 to '93 spec shifter Headers for MKII n/a Changing Power Steering Fluid reply - new clutch? cables MKII clutch not installed properly? Sender: owner-mr2 mr2-digest Dynoed Torque Increases. RE: Dynoed Torque Increases. Re: david.cole's Q & A ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chris Barnard Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:26:29 -0800 Subject: `95 Turbo found for sale Thought somebody on the list might be interested... While picking up MR2 parts at the local Toyota dealer last Friday I noticed a nearly new `95 MR2 turbo for sale. Here's everything I know about it: (I can get the phone # or more details if interested) white with tan leather 6,000 miles fully loaded (were there any "options" for `95) asking $28,000 Dealer claimed they just got the car in from Toyota distribution in Portland last week so it hasn't even hit the local papers yet. chrisbar@microsoft.com ------------------------------ From: uunet!rust.net!bagdon (Steve Bagdon) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:55:50 -0500 Subject: Camry wheels as snow-tire wheels for '91 Turbo? It snowed 2" today here in Detroit, MI, so maybe it's time to get snow tires. The main roads are very well plowed and salted (argh!), but the secondary roads have to wait a while for the snow to go away. Just getting a few blocks to the main roads is a real challenge with those darn 205 tires on the rear. Saw a great page on the mr2.com site, about using Camry wheels as snow-tire wheels. Called one of the local Toyota dealers, and they are willing to sell Camry 15x6 steel wheels for $30 per, in sets of 4, with no lugs (darn). Sounds like a good enough deal, especially for what is basically a brand new wheel - they remove the steel wheels from new cars and put them in storage, then install aluminum wheels on the cars for new retail sale. Is 15x6 too big for a snow tire, since the stock '91 Turbo is 15x6 front and 15x7 rear? Will the extra size of the snow tire cause problems? Should I hold out for a set of 14x6? I really would rather buy snow tires that will last 3-4 seasons and maintain two sets of rims, then settle for multi-purpose rubber that will give better snow performance, and not so great dry performance. Anyone have any suggestions. If this is a good idea and a good price, I'll pass along the dealership and the number to anyone who wants it. TIA. Steve B. bagdon@rust.net '85 N/A 169,000 miles '91 Turbo 79,000 miles ------------------------------ From: uunet!idirect.com!mrtwo (Bill Chen) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:49:34 -0500 Subject: Re:optimum shift points Well I dug out my issue of Road & Track and found the formula to determine the optimum shift points. Here it is reprinted: In general, a car will accelerate most quickly if each shift drops the revs back to the torque peak, regardless of where the horsepower peak may be. Often, this means going all the way to redline-and still the revs may be too low in the next gear. For other cars, or in other gears, it may mean shifting well short of redline. The 1989 Corvette (with the now-unavailable L98 V-8) is a good example of the latter. There is no point in going past 4500 rpm during acceleration runs because the engine develops maximum torque at only 3200 rpm. Another example is a 1985 Toyota MR2, with redline at 7700 rpm, power peak at 6600 rpm and torque peak at 4800. Gear ratios are 3.17, 1.90, 1.31, 0.97 and 0.82. Now take the ratio of 1st gear to 2nd and multiply it by 4800 to find at what rpm you should shift to 2nd: / = divide 3.17/1.90 x 4800 = 8000 rpm But this engine won't rev to 8000. So the 1-2 shift should occur at redline. For the 2-3 shift: 1.90/1.31x 4800 = 6960 rpm So the shift point in 2nd gear would be about 7000 rpm. And so on and so forth, through the rest of the ratios. Let's do the math now with the Saab 9000 Aero, which has a redline of 6000 rpm, power peak at 5500 rpm and torque peak at just 1950 rpm. Gear ratios are 3.38, 1.76, 1.18, 0.89 and 0.70. Thus: 3.38/1.76 x 1950 = 3745 rpm For the 2-3 shift, we have: 1.76/1.18 x 1950 = 2908 rpm If these shift points seem absurdly low for maximum acceleration, you're absolutely correct. Two facts play havoc with our tidy equation - the Saab is turbocharged, and it has an exceptionally flat torque curve. Though its peak at 1950 rpm is 258 lb.-ft., torque doesn't dip below 250 lb.-ft. until about 4000 rpm. So even if you shift at a higher rpm than the equation yields, you're still very close to the torque "peak." As for the turbocharger, higher engine speeds mean higher turbo rpm, and turbos tend to be more efficient in this elevated range. Shifting close to redline will minimize turbo lag and yield the quickest possible acceleration times - and quickness in the shifting itself counts extra here, by not allowing the turbo to spin down and minimizing the lag even further. But that very broad, flat torque curve means that you can still extract quite a bit of your Saab's performance by shifting at relatively low revs, say, 4500 rpm. Road & Track Octo ber 1993 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Bill Chen | |MrTwo@idirect.com | |36 Ingleborough Court Unionville, Ontario | |L3R 8M6 Canada | |(905) 946-1170 (416) 816-6135 | - ------------------Life begins at 150mph--------------------------- ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!Fmf2 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:16:42 -0500 Subject: stickers I just recently found the mr2 www archive and I am interested in getting a couple of the stickers from the contest. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Todd McClendon fmf2@aol.com ------------------------------ From: uunet!softwords.bc.ca!geoff (Geoff Seeley) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 20:25:00 Subject: Re: '91 to '93 spec shifter Steve wrote: > I noticed the shifter upgrade on the web site. Is there any great > improvement in shifting? Has anyone done it, and what are your impressions? I like the difference. It shortens the stick and allows you to grip it like a traditional shifter vs. the pistol grip. The '93 knob is also weighted whereas the '91 is not and it seems to add to the feeling of a "positive" shift. It also looks really nice in a car with the black leather interior. Geoff '91t, 162,600km ------------------------------ From: uunet!ix.netcom.com!yogi6 (Harvey ) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:24:57 -0800 Subject: Headers for MKII n/a Dear Digest: If you, like me, have been looking for a header for a MKII N/A, you know that they are hard, if not impossible, to find. Well after calling everyone that i could think of, I think i have found a place that will make one. They said they have been getting lots of calls for parts for the MR2, and they are considering making parts for them. If i can find between 10-15 people who are interested in a header for this great car, i think we can get them made rather inexpensive. If anyone is interested, or has found a header, please e-mail me at: yogi6@ix.netcom.com Thanks again, Andrew Sparhawk 1991 Supra Red N/A ------------------------------ From: uunet!bendnet.com!jdshort (John & Diana Short) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:21:19 -0800 Subject: Changing Power Steering Fluid I don't know about the rest of you but I'm waiting for Marc to write up the instructions so I can change the power steering fluid ;) Actually Marc, I've got the 93 shop manuals if thats any help John Happy Notes from the Short Family Frog Farm! 93T ------------------------------ From: "ROBERT C. SHAW" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:41:05 -0600 (CST) Subject: reply - new clutch? Demetrius my car does something that sounds similar to yours, here goes - when I start cold, the first five minutes I can't take off with anything but a snails pace or else the transmission just shutters horribly when I start to release the clutch. After it warms up I can launch no problem though. However, I've found that if I: pump the clutch about 20 times while the car is warming up and ride the clutch for a few seconds while backing up and/or going along in first, the problem is completely resolved. Hope this helps. Bobby - driving a Camaro (wow this is a boat) for now 85na - under the scalpel ------------------------------ From: uunet!ukonline.co.uk!david.cole Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:09:13 GMT Subject: cables I fabricated my own cables from common stuff from the hardware store. It's worked great for about 6 months now. If anyone wants the recipe let me know. Bobby 85na rshaw@bit.csc.lsu.edu Subject: Freezing hand brake Bobby, Judging by the number of people that are suffering from frozen hand-brakes, maybe it would be a good idea to post it directly to the Digest!? If not, send me the recipe. Subject: New Clutch how you can tell if you need a new clutch. It's just when I get on the gas hard in 1st gear the clutches seems to slip a bit. But once the car is moving I have no problems. Thanks, DLJ The experts (Kip & Co) will no doubt agree (I hope!) but methinks you need a new clutch, unless it can be adjusted? (Over to the experts...) ____________________________________________________________ |Reply to: | | | |David Cole david.cole@ukonline.co.uk | |Satellite Times Fax: (0181) 677 8223 | |Radio & Listings Sub-Editor | |23 Mitcham Lane | |Streatham, SW16 6LQ | |____________________________________________________________| ------------------------------ From: uunet!e-mail.com!mshehan.ford Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:07:05 EST Subject: MKII clutch not installed properly? - ---- Mail Item Text Follows UMSG:FROM: USFMC5WJ--IBMMAIL TO: INET --USIGLINK 01/30/96 12:51:24 To: INTERNET--IBMMAIL FROM: Mark Shehan Subject: MKII clutch not installed properly? A friend of mine has a '91 MKII turbo with a problem. He recently had the clutch replaced and he noticed a strange phenomena. Whenever the engine is warm and he depresses the clutch he notices that the engine rpm drops by several hundred rpm to approx. 400-500 rpm.... as if depressing the clutch is adding drag to the engine. I suggested to him that he should have his mechanic check all of the mechanical/electrical connections that had been disconnected/reconnected during the clutch replacement, check the fluid level, and then check the engine codes. Anything else that might be the cause.... other than tearing out the tranny and redoing the clutch? Thanks. Mark '91 MKII turbo 148 K miles Dearborn, Michigan (I moved to a house this past weekend with a nice big 2 car garage... that is 8 minutes from work vs. 42 minutes before!) Mark Shehan - Ford Electric Vehicle Powertrain Engineering Suite 225, 23400 Michigan Avenue, Village Plaza Dearborn, Michigan USA 48124, ph 313 323-2758, fx 313 845-5349 (w) mshehan.ford@e-mail.com or (h) Mark_Shehan@CompuServe.com ?? ------------------------------ From: "KNOBLAUCH, BRIAN" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:38:02 EST Subject: Sender: owner-mr2 Hello, I am a new MR2 owner and have a couple questions. It is a '91 and I am the third owner. It appears that some owner previous to me went over a curb somewhere 'cause on the bottom of the car in front there are (were) two plastic pieces (technical term?). Anyway, on the driver's side (left) it is all bent out of shape, and on the other side it is completely gone. I'm buying the car from the dealer, but they wanted another $275 to replace the one missing piece! Do I need it? Can I replace this myself, would I have to order the part through my local dealer? The bolts are still in place, but the plastic was ripped right off. It doesn't look like anything hard to fix as there does not appear to be much holding that piece on. Other than that the car is in nearly perfect shape! ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!NetMutt Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:13:54 -0500 Subject: mr2-digest - --------------------- Forwarded message: Subj: Re: mr2-digest V1 #98 Date: 96-01-29 18:53:39 EST From: NetMutt To: validgh!mr2-digest@uunet.uu.net Well, it finally happened.... I was racing a 3000GT-VR4 sunday morning, and as I shifted from second to third, **CRUNCH** **OUCH**. Needless to say, that I did in fact pull away from the Mitsu once I got into third, but.... the next time I shifted into third gear I noticed that I no longer had a third gear synchro. Ok, I thought, how bad can it be. Well, as if that wasn't bad enough, after I pulled into my driveway and tried to back out, I noticed that I wasn't able to get the car into reverse. I think that maybe the third gear synchro broke and shot across the tranny box and is possibly blocking the reverse entry, but I really have no clue when it comes to the inside of the transmission/differential. From what I have been told, the gear used for first is the same gear used for reverse, and such if first works, so should reverse. Anyway, has this ever happened to anyone else out there??? I only have 83k miles on my 91Turbo. My car is off to Toyota on friday, if anyone has any input before I drop it off, PLEASE feel free to e-mail me at netmutt@aol.com Thanks a bunch - -Larry Saccone 91MR2Turbo ------------------------------ From: aly abulkheir Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:07:43 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dynoed Torque Increases. Greetings to all, I was just pondering the fact that Chris Myer and other experienced tuners have repeated the fact that what is really felt in the seat of the pants is TORQUE increases, NOT horsepower increases, and of course changing where these increases are in the RPM band. Notice these three examples: 1. The '87-'88 Supra Turbo had 230 hp and 246 lb-ft of torque (I'm not sure of the RPM's) and according to Road & Track, had a 0-60 time of 6.4 seconds. In I believe '89, horsepower was retuned by 2hp to 232 and torque went up by 8 lb-ft to 254. This change caused a decrease in the 0-60 time of 2/10th's of a second to 6.2 seconds. 2. (opposite example, pardon the use of Chrysler) The first Neon came out with 132hp and 129 lb-ft of torque with an 0-60 time of about 8 seconds. The newer coupe, with DOHC has a 18HP increase to 150, but only a 2 lb-ft torque increase to 131. Autoweek just stated yesterday that the performance difference is only at high rpm and speed and that it just doesn't translate in the quarter mile or 0-60 time. 3. BMW's increase on the 325i to 328i six-cylinder engine: virtually no increase in horsepower, but the increase in torque makes a substantial difference in acceleration. What am I getting at? The horsepower increases that everyone advertises aren't really telling us what kind of performance increases we're paying for. I wish that HKS, TRD, etc. would give us dyno tested torque increases stated in their catalogs, or at least be able to tell you the figures on the phone (the guy at TRD didn't even know how much hp their header added). I know that these figures may not be as important as I make them out to be. But since on the 4AGE, I am looking to add more torque and at a lower RPM, I think these figures might be a little helpful. In conclusion, here's what I'm looking for: DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY DYNO TESTED RESULTS ON A MILDLY MODIFIED 4AGE MOTOR WHO IS WILLING TO SHARE THEM WITH THE GROUP? EITHER INDIVIDUALLY ON THE FOLLOWING MODIFICATIONS OR AS A WHOLE. DON'T FORGET I'M LOOKING FOR TORQUE INCREASES. These are the mods I have planned that I would like some info on: TRD HEADER. (no increases advertised) HKS EXHAUST. (6hp increase advertised but no rpm or torque advertised) K&N FILTERCHARGER with bottom of air box cut out as recommended to me by Mr. 2 Performance Products. (about 4 hp expected but no torque adv.) CRANE HI-6 IGNITION AMP or similar amp (MSD,Jacobs,HKS). (no hp/trq adv.) HKS 256/264 or CHRIS MYER'S NEW 260 CAMSHAFTS. (10hp adv., no trq or rpm's) Any help on this would be appreciated. I look forward to your responses, Aly Red MR2, considering blue abulkh34@matrix.newpaltz.edu ------------------------------ From: "Zublin, Bryan (SD-MS)" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:20:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: RE: Dynoed Torque Increases. >What am I getting at? The horsepower increases that everyone advertises >aren't really telling us what kind of performance increases we're paying >for. I wish that HKS, TRD, etc. would give us dyno tested torque increases >stated in their catalogs, or at least be able to tell you the figures on the >phone (the guy at TRD didn't even know how much hp their header added). If you know the horsepower at a particular rpm, you can calculate the torque. I don't recall the formula, check your physics text book. It's something like hp = k * torque * rpm, where k is a constant. Bryan Zublin bzublin@gi.com ------------------------------ From: uunet!zeta.org.au!embee (Mark Bosma) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:36:43 +1100 Subject: Re: david.cole's Q & A >After 4 abortive attempts to get digests #95 and #96 resent, (they must be >corrupted, because they all keep getting cut off at the same point!) Can >anyone forward them to me? Done. >1/ Headlights... I replaced my semi-sealed standard halogen bulbs with >80/100W. The shell is still standard, but visibility is really good! (can >actually see where I'm going). Neither bulbs or fuses have blown, so am I >correct in thinking that I don't need to make any mods to the wiring? Correct; no fuse/wiring change required for 100W hi-beam. >4/ Exhaust... with regards to the small silencer at the rear of the car, >just behind the main end one (It's definetely not a cat)... Are you really sure David? My old ex-USA AW11 had a catalytic converter immediately up-stream of the muffler (connected together by a U-pipe if my memory serves). It was about a foot by 10 inches by 3 inches. Can't answer the question, but thought while I was typing... Cheers, Mark Bosma 94 SW20 Bathurst. ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #100