mr2-digest Sunday, 28 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 098 Transmission noise Re: mr2-digest V1 #96 Sport Compact Car strut replacement shift points RE: V8 MR2 RE: More power '91 to '93 spec shifter Houston Re freezing hand / parking brake cables. RE: Optimum shift points Re: Drag starts and Shifting Re:MR2 Engine Cooloing Fan Modification Shifting points for Drag Racing Cool Down Time for a Turbo ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: uunet!aol.com!AstonMrtn Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 00:48:40 -0500 Subject: Transmission noise Transmissions aren't supposed to make noise, are they? I just noticed something on my '91 NA...definitely transmission noise. Tough to describe, sort of a low rumble sort of noise...sounded like gears meshing (which of course they are). If I disengage the clutch, the noise stops (which means it's definitely transmission noise. It's not something I've noticed while driving, I just noitced it as I let my car idle for a few seconds before shutting it off after some hard driving. What could be causing this? I don't belive transmisisons should be making ANY extra noise...right? I guess it could be low on transmission fluid...could the transmission itself be going bad? And opinions on this? It sounded a lot like the noise my ex-Scirocco used to make, only the Scirocco was worse. A mechanic estimated my Scirocco's transmission had about 10k miles left in it before calling it quits. My warranty runs out in a few thousand miles; I'd just HATE it (NOT) if I had to have the transmission replaced while still under warranty...! - -Matt '91 White NA ------------------------------ From: Gerald San Agustin Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:58:57 -0800 Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #96 > was wondering if anyone knows approximately how much it costs for a Sport >Injection Intake Manifold or similar manifold. And are these setups street >legal? I saw one used on the ITAC MR2 in Turbo Magazine in '91, but none of >these questions were addressed. I'm not sure about the cost but I know for sure that it's not street legal. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger Cyber Racing, So Cal ------------------------------ From: Gerald San Agustin Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:55:57 -0800 Subject: Sport Compact Car Well, we just finished the photo shoot for the May issue. As far as the cover shot, only the rear/right fender of my car is shown. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger Cyber Racing, So Cal ------------------------------ From: Gerald San Agustin Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:52:59 -0800 Subject: strut replacement >Has anyone on this list done their own strut replacement? If so, can you >tell me how difficult it was and which special tools you need? I've read >the procedure in the service manual and I think I can handle it. I'll need >to rent or buy a spring compressor, but other than that I think that large >wrenches and vice grips can be used in place of the special service tools >listed in the book. Anyone got any advice on this? it's a good idea to have a large table vise and a plumber's monkey wrench. Just be careful not to scratch the strut piston. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger Cyber Racing, So Cal. ------------------------------ From: Mark Sink Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:27:43 -0500 Subject: shift points - --------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daniel Barnes >I seem to remember an article a few years ago, back when the magazines >did this sort of thing, that concluded the best way to choose shift >points was to drop yourself onto peak torque on the next gear. If that >meant redlining it, OK, but that it is generally unnecessary. Most cars are geared so that redlineing is neccesary to gain maximum acceleration, but the point to which you must take the tach drops with each change... past redline from 1st to 2nd, redline to 3rd.. just below to 4th.. and so on. The shifting so that the needle drops to peak tirque may just be another rule of thumb. There is a very specifc way of finding exact shift point, but you need a power curve, and gear ratio info. I have this info for the MKI N/A's. Mark ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!AstonMrtn Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:26:35 -0500 Subject: RE: V8 MR2 >capabilities. Then the Lexus engine came out, and >the problem was finding a transverse transmission. Not much of a problem, if you don't mind doing a little fabricating. Race transimssions are easy to find; there are many companies that make 'generic' transmisisons...you just need to figure out how to mount it. Anyone ever looked closely at a VW Fox's transmission? If I remember right, their engines are longitudinally mounted...while driving the front wheels...same sort of layout as a V8 MR2 would require. DOn't know if the Fox trans. can handle all the power, though. - -Matt '91 White NA ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!AstonMrtn Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:29:09 -0500 Subject: RE: More power > >increase but not the low end. My question is can I increase >response at the low end without entering the block. > Would a bigger throttle body or Header really make any >difference. The car Since it's already SC, I don't think a larger throttle body would help much. A header might actually HURT low end, but you may be on the right track...I've heard that increasing the diameter of the exhaust decreases low-end torque..increases high end. Well, maybe you could take the opposite direction - go to a smaller diameter exhaust system, and move your torque curve down....? - -Matt '91 Whie NA ------------------------------ From: uunet!rust.net!bagdon (Steve Bagdon) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 06:18:31 -0500 Subject: '91 to '93 spec shifter I noticed the shifter upgrade on the web site. Is there any great improvement in shifting? Has anyone done it, and what are your impressions? Steve B. sbagdon@nando.net '85 MR2 n/a '91 MR2 Turbo ------------------------------ From: George T Hilliker Date: 28 Jan 96 16:46:32 EST Subject: Houston Hi, Am I somehow posting this wrong? I am using the return address that comes with the news docs. I am TDY in Houston and don't have the original instructions on submission. gth - --- I recently moved to Houston, Texas. Does anyone know if there is a dealer here that can be trusted? Also, Is there a car cover for the MR2 that is waterproof? - -------------------------------------------------------- George T. Hilliker, '93T, T-Tops, 14K Miles, Very Red Home Page: www.goshen.net/DataCommGroupInc/ E-Mail: ghillike@compuserve.com IBM DPI/TFS Sugarland, TX - -------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: uunet!rmplc.co.uk!ngpearce (Nick Pearce) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:27:39 +0000 Subject: Re freezing hand / parking brake cables. Re possible sticking hand brake: Keith, I recently had a similar problem. I left my '88 MK-I parked on top of a hill all day in the freezing weather. When I later drove to the bottom of the hill, and I stopped, there was a strong smell of burning brakes. When I got out to investigate, my rear driver side (our RHS) brake disk was glowing bright orange ! The hand brake lever felt loose. After a few minutes, the brake freed and the lever felt normal. I suppose the heat thawed out the frozen cable. I stopped using the hand brake and when I had it looked at by a mechanic, indeed the cable was split and thus letting in water. The disc was OK. PS. Appologies to anyone who tried to make any sense of my first post which detailed a damage repair estimate. For some wierd reason, extra digits got thrown in at random (including at the total) - making the post look a complete nonsense ! The total should have read TWO THOUSAND AND EIGHTY THREE UK POUNDS. Phew. PPS. I sincerely hope this post is more successful ! ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!AstonMrtn Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:28:19 -0500 Subject: RE: Optimum shift points >did this sort of thing, that concluded the best way > to choose shift points was to drop yourself onto >peak torque on the next gear. If that meant >redlining it, OK, but that it is generally unnecessary. I read about the whole idea of figuring out when to shift in Road and Track once. They wrote about how to figure out your shift points based on torque peak and gear ratios...HOWEVER, they also said that this method generally only works for normally aspirated cars. Turbos & SCs can affect the torque curve in strange ways...like Saab's torque cruve doesn't realyl have a peak, it just has a 'plateau'... - -Matt '91 White NA ------------------------------ From: Matti Kalalahti Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:28:10 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Drag starts and Shifting > >Here's something else to think about. In our work on 1st to 2nd shifts, we > >found that > >a fast shift didn't make that much difference if you really wound the > >engine out, > >and had the Rs up somewhat when you dropped it into 2nd. It was more > >important to > >keep a good torque thing happening than it was to shift quickly. This is > >something > >that I've found most Solo drivers don't pay much attention to. > > I've thought about it, but since I (and most autoxers) don't have an onboard > computer I don't really know what's best. I've been told that based on > calculations involving gear ratios and torque curve that shifting at redline > (7000 in my case) is best, but by my seat-of-the-pants computer my car's > torque seems to drop off very quickly after 6200 rpm so it feels like I'm > better off shifting earlier. I've even queried the MR2 list hoping that > some drag racers could give me the definitive answer, but none did. I guess > I need one of them fancy computer things. > > Brad Burns > '94 MR2T Well I'll give it a try: rpm 1->2 6659 2->3 6385 3->4 6260 4->5 6060 I got these numbers with RevAnalyzer, using Geoff Seeley's 91 MR2 turbo's test data. - -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * LSD * 3T-GTEU * 195+-10hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ ------------------------------ From: "Kostas G. D. Chryssos " Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:45:25 +0200 Subject: Re:MR2 Engine Cooloing Fan Modification If you want to modify the operation of the Engine Cooling Fan, which provides cooling to the inter cooler as well, in order to make the operation of the fan manually selected, regardless of the under-hood temperature here is an easy way to do it. 1. Locate in the engine bay the fuse/relay box. Looking into the bay from the driver's side (left hand drive cars) it is located between you and the engine somewhat to the right, lift the cover and note two connector plugs. One towards you, (first plug) somewhere in the middle of the box, to the left of the EFI Relay, and one towards the engine, (second plug) to the top of the box, left of the three fuses (top EFI fuse, Vent fuse under and ECU-IG fuse under vent fuse). Go to the second plug and locate pin no.3 where a black/red wire cones out from the top. Pin No. 3 is the one on the bottom line ( towards you and left from the Vent 20A fuse) extreme right corner pin of the plug. (You can work without removing the plug.) 2. This wire (black/red) is the wire taking ground from the Engine Cooling Fan ECU to the fan relay, is normally on - that is it provides a ground to the relay continue sly, the relay being energized in the normal condition but the fan is OFF since the relay contacts in the energized position disconnect the fan from power. 3. With a wire cutter, cut this wire making sure you leave half of it on the plug and half of it on the harness...take care since the overall length of this wire is not much. 4. You can start the engine, after cutting this wire and notice that the fan is now running. If not, you have cut some other wire instead. Go back and double check. 5. With the engine switched off, connect a pair of wires to the two loose ends, making good electrical contact and insulate the joints. You can use electrical crimping splices, you will need a crimping tool for this, but you do not need additional insulation as those splices are insulated, use the red ones, this is the smallest diameter, since the wire is rather thin. 6. Route the two wires (preferably a pair with overall insulation) out of the fuse/relay box (there is some free exit space on the bottom of the box but it is a little hard to locate. Use a flash light from the outside/under and look from the top to locate the opening). 7. Once the wires are out, route them through the fire wall. To do so you will have to remove the left side panel behind the driver seat, the center console and the armrest console as well as the top cover of the loudspeaker box. First remove the top of the loudspeaker box, lift the end towards the seat, there are three snap plugs there and from the inside unscrew the three screws under the hinge and remove the cover. Then check on the right side of the exposed area there are two plastic plugs that hold the side panel's bottom portion. Remove them. Also lift the plastic gutter of the drivers door rear end slightly to free the side panel and pull the side panel off starting from bottom to the top. There are six or seven snap plugs to get loose. Hinge the top end out as there are two teeth going underneath. 8. Remove the rest, there are 4 screws into the rear console, two inside the top box and two inside the bottom one. Do NOT remove the screws which are outside the console sides. Lift the console out. Then remove the 4 side screws on the armrest, remove the gear shift leather cover upwards and the plastic cover after lifting from rear towards the front. Hinge the front out. Then remove two screws exposed up front. There are 6 screws all together to remove on the armrest. Lift the armrest off. 9. Move the seat all the way up front. Look to the fire wall carpeting and lift it from bottom to top. You will not remove it from the top, just lift it upwards to expose the duct (hole) with the wires passing to the engine bay. Find a way to hold the carpet fast. Remove an oval sound proofing patch and lift the cable harness from a fastener just under the feed-through hole by pushing on the clip. Put a blunt screw driver where the rubber cup meets the metal of the fire wall and work the rubber cup out towards you. It works as a big rubber grommet with a dent for the metal. Once removed, unfasten the electrical tape completely, making sure that you do not remove the plastic adapter clip which holds the harness to the fire wall. If so, mark the place to re-install it. Once you have removed the tape, you can easily pass the wires through the center hole of the big rubber grommet. I suggest to pass any additional wires that you would require for other mods etc so that you will not have to do this again ( EVC etc). NOTE: I have noticed after completion that it is MUCH easier to route the wires from cabin to engine compartment than the opposite, especially if you have NOT removed the air filter box. So the wire laying is better in reverse order. 10. With the wires through, re-tape the rubber grommet push it through to fit in the fire wall, move it sideways to make sure it is properly located, clip the plastic fastener to hold the harness fast to the fire wall, replace the oval pad and route the wire to the armrest up front via the rear of the speaker box, push it there all the way to the bottom. Then pull down the mat, make sure it fits properly behind the strap fasteners, re-install the side panel working from top to bottom, (I used some rubber glue to hold the snap plugs in place), do not forget the two plastic plugs on the bottom side and then fit the speaker box cover, three screws there and flip/snap it closed (three snap plugs). 11. You can install the switch on the plastic cover around the gear shift lever or you can route it to the side of the fog lights switch where there is space provided for two more switches. Get a stock fog switch and connect it there. Make sure that you wire it so that normal should be closed switch (wire ends sorted together) and activated should be open switch (wire ends open). 12. Re-install the remaining. You can now manually operate the engine cooling fan which will also provide fresh air to the inter cooler. This helps on boosts at low speed. It should be here noted that the panel light does NOT come on with this modification. It will come on though if the engine temperature rises and the cooling ECU takes over. The stock operation is still active as long as your switch is in the auto (not manual) operation providing a connection between the two wires. If one wishes to have the light ON as well, then the wires have to run all the way to the ECU instead of the plug in the fuse/relay box. There the two wires will connect a 800 ohm resistor between terminals 5 (L) and 6 (L-O) of the cooling fan ECU (located next to the engine ECU). I did NOT make this mod as I wanted to avoid getting additional wires into the engine ECU compartment in fear of Radio Frequency Interference to the engine ECU from my high power ham system on board. I have installed the switch just behind the gear shifter along with the re-located fog lights switch and the antenna control switch. I have installed the HKS EVC + Timer control boxes at the original location of the fog light switch. ___________ ________________ ________ __ ___/__ | / /__< /___ __ )___ __/ _____ \ __ | / / __ / __ __ |__ / ____/ / __ |/ / _ / _ /_/ / _ / /____/ _____/ /_/ /_____/ /_/ (Kostas G. D. Chryssos Ph.D.) 30,Ikarias str. Glyfada GR16675, Athens, Hellas Tel: xx-301 9628212, Fax: xx-301 9628539 ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!LUKYDUCK Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:39:42 -0500 Subject: Shifting points for Drag Racing I recently read that Brad Burns and some other people would like to know when to shift gears while drag racing. I have the mathmatical calculation you can use. Unfortunately, I will not be home for two weeks. And that is where it is. If someone will remind me on or about the 15 Feb., I will post it on the digest when I get home. Just so I don't keep you waiting, I will provide the shift points I use for my MR2. 1991 MR2 Turbo 1st to 2nd 5400 RPM 2nd to 3rd 4866 RPM 3rd to 4th 4385 RPM (For drag racing distances longer than a 1/4 mile :) 4th to 5th 4018 RPM (Only if you are in a serious Race ;) Have Fun and watch out for those Red and Blues. LukyDuck 1991 Turbo Lic. 1FASTOY Email: LukyDuck@aol.com ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!LUKYDUCK Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:39:40 -0500 Subject: Cool Down Time for a Turbo For all of you who have been discussing cool down times, I always let my car idle for two minutes if I hav been driving above 60 MPH for an hour or more. Why, I fly helicopters which have turbine engines. Many studies have been done on different types of turbine engines to come up with cool down times. True, a turbo is not as technical as a turbine engine, but the different metals in the turbo will cool down at different rates of time. The military requires helicopter turbines to be cooled down for two minutes. The temperature in the turbo at the time you stop will be very high. By waiting at least two minutes, you will be allowing all of the components to cool down to an acceptable level. Just remember that common sense applies and this is only my recommendation. You must look at other factors as well in order to try and give your turbo the longest life expectency possible. Sometimes I let it cool down longer and sometimes shorter. LukyDuck 1991 Turbo Lic. 1FASTOY Email: LukyDuck@aol.com ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #98