mr2-digest Friday, 12 January 1996 Volume 01 : Number 086 interior lights, mk1 mk1 disaster 503E motor Gulping RE: Front window antenna MY HOT MR2 Tornado Air Management Systems Re: antenna in windshield TEC EVC III Not The Oxygen Sensor Oxygen Sensor Re: 4th Gear Boost Exhaust System Re: RE: TEC Issues Replacement wheels Redline 75W-90NS Re: Oxy sensor? frozen em.brake on mk1 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: uunet!hou.sperry-sun.com!bshaw Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:33:27 -0600 Subject: interior lights, mk1 Hey John, the wiper and headlight knobs aren't supposed to light up. I don't _think_ the climate control stuff does either but I _may_ be mistaken. Don't buy the cover new or you will really spend alot. Let me warn you though, taking the instrument cluster in and out is a big mess! Bobby 85na ------------------------------ From: uunet!hou.sperry-sun.com!bshaw Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:52:20 -0600 Subject: mk1 disaster Driving on I-10 in the wee hours of the morning and I realize my mk1 doesn't have any power as I try an easy acelleration. My oil pessure slowly starts to fall to the middle mark. I take the next exit and it dies as soon as I take it out of gear. When I come to a complete stop my gas light comes on full bright, (what a relief, right?) it had been showing a 1/4 tank till then. I try and crank it but no go. So I run about 400 yards to the nearest station (in the teen degree cold) and buy a gallon of gas. Put it in, and still won't start. Finally I get it started with a lot of throttle. (my gas light has gone out) as I roll up to the station, it dies again as soon as the wheels or middle throttle aren't keeping it going. I check the oil, none to be found except coming out from under the valve covers (ouch!) I was hurt, I'd done everything I could to get this car running good as reasonably possible. It has ~120k miles and I was about to change the timing belt and get the valves adjusted anyhow. Before it died a forth or third cycl. value was making noise; never got a chance to try the high octane gas :( I'll write again once something happens with the shop. The car is in Louisiana and I'm in Houston; another long story, and I figure everyone has heard enough. signed - grief stricken, Bobby 85na - out of commission ------------------------------ From: uunet!hou.sperry-sun.com!bshaw Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 08:30:25 -0600 Subject: 503E motor I saw Gerald's post about the different Japanese engines, but the one that caught my attention was the "2.1L 1400 BHP 503E IMSA engine". If this wasn't a type-o, could you briefly explain to me and the less "mechanically-cultured" group members how they get that kind of power from that volume. (I would guess nuclear fission but I doubt there is a class for that) Bobby 85na ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!JoeGraphic Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 20:16:30 -0500 Subject: Gulping Hello Everyone, I just bought a 91 MR2 Turbo about 1 and a half weeks ago. I'm planning on taking it in to the dealer (where I bought it) to have a couple things fixed/looked at. The front left speaker is out (common problem I guess), and the CD player only takes certain disks (another common problem)... Anyway... There is this strange gulping sound when the turbo starts to come on (usually around 3000 RPM). It really sound like someone just swallowed real hard.. I was thinking that perhaps the turbo is loosing presure, because after it makes this sound there seems to be a small loss of power...and then it comes back on... Any ideas? Thanks very much! Later... Joeo ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!LUKYDUCK Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 22:18:24 -0500 Subject: RE: Front window antenna When I bought my '91 Turbo(Oct. 90), I noticed the front windshield had a antenna in it. I called the dealer and of course they didn't have any idea what it was for. I then called Toyota in Los Angles and refered my question to them. They got back to me about a week later and told me that it is a secondary antenna. They explained to me that it was used for station scanning when you have weak signals. This is how it works. By pressing the tune button, and scanning through stations (or search for a station), the front antenna will be used when you loop back around to where you started (ie. You search for a radio station and can't find one the first time you go through all of the stations). The second time around you will notice that a symbol appears in the radio display. This symbol lets you know that it is using the front antenna in order to search for stations that have weak signal (Too weak for it to stop on the first time around). The radio will now stop at more stations than it did the first time. The first time around, the radio signals must be of a certain strength in-order for it to stop at the station. The second time around, the radio lowers this level assuming that you cannot find a station, allowing you more options the second time around. This is how the 3 in 1 radio works. I don't know if the newer models are the same or not. LukyDuck '91 Turbo Lic. 1FASTOY Email: LukyDuck@aol.com ------------------------------ From: uunet!mail.manawatu.gen.nz!bill (Bryan Davidson) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 07:31:02 GMT Subject: MY HOT MR2 Is it normal for the bottom of the rear luggage compartment (above the muffler) to be VERY HOT after a short drive? ^^^^^^^^^ Anyone got a suggestion as to a possible cause..... Thanks, Bryan :::::White, '86, 1500cc, Auto, 99.6k kms::::: P.S There is no lining (been removed???) covering the bottom , just bare metal. ------------------------------ From: uunet!ix.netcom.com!yogi6 (Harvey ) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 00:17:33 -0800 Subject: Tornado Air Management Systems a MKII. If so, did you gain any performance. The Tornado sales man swore I would gain performance as well as gas mileage, but it is just a piece of stationary stainless steel that creates a turbine of air into the engine. Let me know if anyone has used this or thinks it will work. Thanks Andrew 1991 NA Yogi6@ix.netcom.com ------------------------------ From: Stuart Smith Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 09:29:35 GMT Subject: Re: antenna in windshield >>If the antenna in the windshield is a "diversity antenna", where did you find >>this information? >The owner's manual mentions that the antenna is a "diversity" system. What >that is and how it works is from an article in Radio Electronics (now called >Electronics Now) magazine. As far as I know (and it could be bullshit). Diversity is just for FM. It involves takes signal from more than one antenna. The radio, can then use this information to generate a much stronger signal. For example, look on police cars, and you will usually see 2 or 3 arials providing a good base for a divergence signal. >>... but where is the AM antenna? >I believe that the AM radio runs off of the rear (main) antenna. In cars >with a single antenna, the AM and FM both work off of the same antenna. AM can't use divergence, so it just works off one arial. It may not even require one, getting by with a coil in most gettoblasters, etc... >marcus hall Stu ------------------------------ From: uunet!bendnet.com!jdshort (John & Diana Short) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:16:24 -0800 Subject: TEC Let me start by stating that this is solely a thermal process. You cannot get more heat out (horsepower) by using horsepower to change another temperature in the system, ie intake air temp. Here are some pieces to the puzzle. On the TEC cooler, Marc Summers quotes a number of 2% horsepower gain for every 10 degrees (F?) drop in intake temp. He may be able to quote source. As for power from the alternator, nothing is free. Lets face it, roughly every 500 watts is going to cost you 1 horsepower. There is no magic there, just mechanical inefficiencies. Also, the TECs (going off a Midland Ross data sheet from one I have in the garage) are most efficient with the smallest delta T (temperature difference between cold and hot side at the device, not the heatsink). If I'm reading these graphs right, a 30 degree temp. difference renders the thing 50% efficient. Doesn't that mean 1000 watts of power will only give you 500 watts of cooling??? Lets look at reality. 70 degree ambient air temp would maybe give 80 degrees at hot TEC surface (if heatsinked wonderfully and cooled by outside air) minus 30 degrees gives 50 on cold side and maybe 60 at the heatsink. On your MKII NA, thats what it would take to gain 3 hp. The reason an intercooler works is that the cooling comes without horsepower cost to the engine. The TECs get their cooling from the engine so I don't believe you'll ever come out ahead. And to add to challange, cooling TECs is a non trivial effort, especially on top of a hot engine. Again, I believe Marc Summers solution of a intercooler fan is the answer. Happy Notes from the Short Family Frog Farm! 93T ------------------------------ From: uunet!bendnet.com!jdshort (John & Diana Short) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:16:20 -0800 Subject: EVC III So I just picked up one of these HKS EVC III atm. With no instructions posted on MR2.COM and only generic instructions with the unit, does anyone have any words of wisdom??? All this talk has about pressure being bled off messing up some of the controls has me concerned. Happy Notes from the Short Family Frog Farm! 93T ------------------------------ From: Steven Lau Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:08:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: Not The Oxygen Sensor Hi Everyone, Sorry, I posted a wrong letter. I didn't mean to change the Oxygen Sensor. What I was trying to ask is about the fuel filter! Sincerely yours, . SL ------------------------------ From: Steven Lau Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 09:06:31 -0800 (PST) Subject: Oxygen Sensor Hi Everyone, Does any one know the location of the oxygen sensor in a MK I na? How often do you need to change it? Any particular thing one has to pay attention to while changing it? Sincerely yours, . SL ------------------------------ From: Matti Kalalahti Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 23:25:13 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: 4th Gear Boost > I own a 91 Turbo and I can get full boost while in fourth gear. I don't see > why you wouldn't. I also don't think the computer will limit the amount. I > think you ought to be getting full boost. Also, you mention about the oil > coming out of the tubing area. I have had the same thing happen to me. You > can stop it from coming out of the line by tightening the clamps. Depending > on how much air is leaking out when you have positive pressure, might cause > you to have a lower boost pressure. I have noticed that any time I have had > the air lines removed and reinstalled, I have had to retighten these lines > when the oil starts coming out. Several experienced engine mech's have told > me that some oil leakage from a turbo bearings will occur as the turbo gets > older. As long as your engine is not using an excessive amount of oil, I > wouldn't worry about it. Also remember that a little amount of oil can > attract a lot of dirt and look worse than it really is. Doing a compression test would be a good idea. Worn rings or broken piston will lower the boost you get. Leaking turbo on the other hand won't... and once your turbo starts leaking, it can get BAD in very short order. - -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ ------------------------------ From: uunet!mofo.com!psmith (Smith, Patrick E.) Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:29:49 -0800 Subject: Exhaust System Hi I was wondering if anybody had any suggestions on an exhaust system for a 93 mr2 2.2. non turbo I'm looking to add some hp. I would like to know a brand name and where to purchase it. I'm in california if that helps. Email me direct -psmith@mofo.com Thanks ... ------------------------------ From: uunet!TCMAIL.FRCO.COM!BBRANDT Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 13:40:51 -0600 Subject: Re: RE: TEC Issues >It doesn't take much energy to drive an alternator, does it? Matt, I hate to tell you but energy is energy and since the alternator is not all that efficient then it will take more watts, in the form of horsepower, to drive it that it will deliver. So yes, the net effect could be a loss of power not an increase. You need to know the hp gain with each degree drop in temp and the amount of power the TEC will draw in creating that much temp differential and the efficiency of the alternator to calcualte the drag on the engine. I have had a couple of hotrod engines that would stall from turning on too many accessories at idle because they weren't making enough hp yet. Bruce Brandt ------------------------------ From: Simon Hough Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 18:15:01 GMT Subject: Replacement wheels I am shortly looking to replace my stock 14x6 inch wheels with 16x7.5 inch (this is on a Mk1, AW11) I know the bore is 54.06 mm but what wheel offset do I need to use so as both front and rear wheels are identical, yet there is no risk off the wheels ever interfeering with the bodywork ? The suspension ride is stock hight. Any info on this subject is recieved with thanks. ------------------------------ From: Kerry Wood Date: 12 Jan 96 21:53:55 EST Subject: Redline 75W-90NS Am holding a half-full bottle of Redline 75W-90NS in my grubby, nicotine stained hand. The label reads "has improved cppoer corrosion protection". I suppose this means it can be used w/ copper parts? Kerry Wood 93T Black (mild modifications) The more people I meet, the more I like my dog! ------------------------------ From: Matti Kalalahti Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 23:26:16 +0200 (EET) Subject: Re: Oxy sensor? > >Ok, I've been following all this idling stuff with interest. They are seem > >to be with warm idling. Well, this morning I jumped into my car (I haven't > >used it for about 3 days) and started it and it was ok. I reversed around > >the side of the house and stopped in the drive and took my foot off the > >accelerator and it just dropped it's revs until it stalled. I found this > >most interesting! ; ) (groan! ) .. anyway, I started it again and kept my > >foot well away from the accelerator and it just did the same ... started and > >then slowly dropped the revs and stalled. One time it almost managed to > >catch itself and keep going. > > >So, is this the oxy sensor? After work I'm gonna find some wire and see > >what the computer says. > > Well, it sound like you're out of gas :-) > It also souns a lot like a broken timing belt :-( > Oxy sensor is in the exhaust manifols, just before it connects to a flexer > pipe. It looks like a big spark plug. It is directly under the car. > But I severely doubt that what you're describing is the oxy sensor. > Let us know. > Mike.S It's for sure not the oxygen sensor. Have you tried checking your spark plugs, they might be fouled. Or a problem with fuel pressure, either you may have a leak or fuel pump may not be operating. With really bad luck you might have water in your fuel that froze if you're having very cold weather. - -- Matti Kalalahti | Toyota Carina Coupe GT-T TwinCam Turbo '82 k124476@ee.tut.fi | RWD * IRS * 3T-GTEU * 195+-15hp@4200-6700rpm A Huge Evergrowing WWW Home Page * http://proffa.cc.tut.fi/~k124476/ ------------------------------ From: uunet!hou.sperry-sun.com!BShaw_at_SSDS5 Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 08:16:45 -0600 Subject: frozen em.brake on mk1 > I own a 86 MR2, early this week we have had some frigid >temperatures. I was over at my friends house and when i came back out >the emergency brake felt limp. I tried to back out but the brakes >were still stuck even though the brake light was off. I finally got >the car to move but i could feel that the brakes were still partially >applied. I drove the car anyways because it was to cold to walk home. >The next morning i got in the car and everything was perfectly >normal. I was just wondering if anyone can explain why this occured. you are lucky you didn't warp the rear rotors; actually if you did, you may not realize it until you get above 50 or so. I battled with the brake cables on my car too. They are a really lamb brain design: the front half of each one is just plastic coated cable, the back half is a cable with a spring around it in a plastic caseing. The cable portion is suppose to move a little inside the spring and caseing. Mine seized this summer and it sounds like yours may be doing the same. I replaced my cables with some 1/4 inch from the hardware store and they work fine :) if you keep having problems and want to know the general procedure email for it. Bobby 85na bshaw@hou.sperry-sun.com ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #86