mr2-digest Saturday, 9 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 058 Re: Aftermarket vs SC Exhaust RE:Injector Cleaners Re: Cold Air Box Re: Rear Qtr Window Replacement - FAST!! Turbo & Hi-tech Performance Magazine Re: MSD Wires Idle speed MR2 suspension How to Align Yourself with Studs and Influence People turbo Magazine Re: Blistering Re: High mileage MKII turbo Re: MKII timing belt questions Re: MKII n/a in the need for speed Re: Drivetrain clunk Re: MKII second gear part number Re: MKII rear window mr2-digest V1 #57 mr2-digest V1 #57 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: uunet!singnet.com.sg!adrian01 (Adrian Heng) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:14:09 +0800 Subject: Re: Aftermarket vs SC Exhaust Hi, I remember some time ago someone asked if the HKS or Trust/GReddy exhaust system is very much better than an SC exhaust on a Mk I NA. I am interested in finding out too. Anybody have any opinions on their comparison? Adrian 85 Mk I Lotus Silver Frost Adrian 85 Mk I Lotus Silver Frost ------------------------------ From: uunet!Rt66.com!cal (Cal Smith) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 95 00:18:53 MST Subject: RE:Injector Cleaners >Hey Cal, has your microscopy helped confirm or deny any of the rumors >that these over the counter cleaners can dissolve seals, bushings or hoses? Our work was highly compartmentalized--we were not given access to anything except the injectors themselves, not even any data from other teams' work. Nothing like having to solve a "Rubik's Cube" with both hands tied behind your back and blindfolded. :-( Sorry, P.S.- I see you are at LSU. I was at USM in Hattiesburg, MS, but somehow most of my tuition went into the Louisiana economy. ;-). Seriously though, I wouldn't buy cheap gas in LA if I were you. $0.03 or $0.07 per gallon could save you a LOT of heartache in the future. Your first good move was getting a Toyota. ------------------------------ From: uunet!singnet.com.sg!adrian01 (Adrian Heng) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 14:58:12 +0800 Subject: Re: Cold Air Box Hi, Someone posted about a Cold Air Box for a Mk II. How about a Mk I? I'm convinced that a cold air box with a K&N type cone filter will increase power. But I'm wondering how the air can be channelled as the Mk I lacks a left side air intake. Anybody with ideas? Adrian 85 Mk I Lotus Silver Frost ------------------------------ From: uunet!singnet.com.sg!adrian01 (Adrian Heng) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:14:06 +0800 Subject: Re: Rear Qtr Window Replacement - FAST!! Hi, I'm posting this for a friend. His '87 Mk I's been broken into. The thief got in thru the LEFT quarter window panel. It's smashed. We don't have any replacement glass available in Singapore at the moment. The agent said we'd have to wait 2 weeks to get it from Japan, if available. If not, we'd have to wait 2 months (!!) for them to manufacture another one. He needs it fast as his car is parked in a public lot at the moment. Anybody know if I can get the part in question faster than 2 weeks? Adrian 85 Mk I Lotus Silver Frost Adrian 85 Mk I Lotus Silver Frost ------------------------------ From: "Gary Friedman" Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 07:17:37 +0000 Subject: Turbo & Hi-tech Performance Magazine Doug- 9952 Hamilton Avenue Huntington Beach, CA 92646 Phone (714) 962-7795 You can order back issues over the phone if you want (5/95) MechTech Twin Turbo is cool!!) They do seem to get issues out to you just after you have forgotten you ever ordered them (6 weeks or so). Has anyone found Jacobs wires pre-made for the Mk II anywhere?? Also,anyone know what the deal is on "Fastforce" wires that I've seen advertised lately? Gary ------------------------------ From: Thomas F Wahjudi Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 10:53:55 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: MSD Wires Marc, >Well, then someone is reading the resistance of the wires wrong. >The previously posted values for the Magnecore wires were very much >HIGHER than what you state above. Read my post twice, will you ? The resistance values I posted are for MSD WIRES, NOT for MAGNECORE WIRES. Magnecore wire have MUCH higher resistance than MSD's. In other words, I don't know about Magnecore wire resistance values, someone has posted it earlier than my posts. I DON'T think that person read the WRONG resistance values. >It also seems to me that with values that low you would be experiencing >a great deal of static noise on your stereo system and also >possibly leaking into your ECU and various other electronics >on board. Once again, read my post carefully, the turbo Talon DOES NOT EXPERIENCE any RFI and EMI whatsoever up to date. ______________________________________________________________________________ Thomas F. Wahjudi 1982 Pink Pearl Toyota Land Cruiser FJ-40... Indonesian RHD, I6, CDI, Downey 270 deg. cam, 190amp alternator, ARB air lockers, PTO, rear full-floating axle, 4.88 gears, Go Rhino! trusses, 4-speed, OEM power steering, fr. disc brakes, 35" BFG MT, custom roll bar and seats. Pictures are at Dean Water's 4x4 Web Page and Ian Staines' Toyota Land Cruiser Homepage : http://www.indirect.com/user/a4x4/4x4.html http://mindlink.net/Ian_Staines/tlc.htm twahjudi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu TLCA member # 2926, a proud one ! _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: uunet!eworld.com!DGay Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 13:06:19 -0800 Subject: Idle speed Hi all- I just bought an 85' MR2 about 5 months ago. It was garaged for 6 years and only has 46K miles on it. I went ahead and replaced the head gasket, timing belt, plus a lot of other gaskets just to prevent any unecessary repairs in the future since it sat for so long. The car runs great except I'm experiencing quite a fluctuation in idle. It usually idles around 800rpm but when you press the brake pedal down at a stop, the idle increases about 250rpm. Also after expressway driving it will idle around 500rpm. It never stays exactly at 800. Cold start idle is around 2200rpm. Any ideas how to fix this?? My milage is about 23 city 33 highway. I don't know if this would tell anyone anything about this idle problem....is this normal gas mileage for this MR2? One more question. 70mph runs the engine right at 4000rpm. I know this is normal for this car but it seems pretty high. Any ideas on changing the final drive to lower this rpm?? And would there be any benefits or disadvantages from doing this, if possible? ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!KipAnderso Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:34:09 -0500 Subject: MR2 suspension In a message dated 95-12-08 23:16:33 EST, you write: >The way I remember it, in 1993, the MR2's suspension got beefed up with: > 1. Wider tires > 2. Bigger rims > 3. LSD differential > 4. Stiffer rear sway bar > >Now we all know the MR2 can be tail happy given the right circumstances, and >I >remember someone saying if the rear-end is tail happy, you should stiffen the >front of the car to keep more weight on the back to improve traction. >However, >the '93 MR2s stiffened the rear sway bar, (according to my memory, which >may be wrong. :-) > >So what gives? Did I remember the '93 changes incorrectly, or did I >misunderstand the "stiffen the front" statement? You forgot about the lower control arm length change on the rear suspension. Toyota improved the suspension to actually toe-in under compression an the 93 and later cars versus toe-out on the pre 93s. This eliminated a lot of the surprise oversteer that is inherent in the pre 93 design. If you don't believe me just con a pre 93 owner into letting you push the limits. You will learn to react very fast with opposite lock _without_ yanking your foot out of the throttle. This change allowed Toyota to stiffen up the rear bar while softening the springs to improve the ride quality. Check the FAQ for a more complete run-down of what was changed. I run my adjustable shocks hard in the front and softest in the rear along with wider rubber to help keep things in check. - -Kip 91 turbo kipanderso@aol.com ------------------------------ From: uunet!Rt66.com!cal (Cal Smith) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 95 14:01:01 MST Subject: How to Align Yourself with Studs and Influence People Bill wrote: > How do your camber, caster and toe settings change from the summer(RACING) >alignment to the winter(snow+ice) alignment. I have a pretty good idea of >setting up the car for racing(AutoX), but what would you change to obtain "A >GOOD WINTER ALIGNMENT"? I don't have perfect info here, as I pay a _lot_ closer attention to my autox settings than my winter settings. Basically, the car gets setup so that it understeers in as many situations as possible. This means much less negative camber in the front (approaching 0 degrees) than in the rear (whereas the autox settings are -1.5 degree front, -1.25 degree rear). The rear stays about where it was. Caster goes to the factory spec., whereas the caster is as close to vertical as you can get for autox. This helps keep the front wheels pointing straight ahead rather than following every rut in the surface. It feels kind of weird having the front wheels centered in the wheelwells again rather than setting far behind the mid-point. As for toe settings, I plumb don't remember. I _think_ they are factory spec., but err to the '93+ specs which are even more conservative and understeer-gifted. Basically, the fronts are pretty neutral and forgiving. The rear has a bit more toe-in (at least on '91/2 cars) so the rear end won't break free if you get in too hot in a corner and dive on the brakes while turning in. As for '93+ cars, I'd have to say use the factory toe specs all the way around. Note that these settings are for MKII cars only--I don't know jack about the particulars on MKI cars (although I have driven one and found it to be imminently tossable and fun). >Also what kind of winters are you talking about? I >live in Colorado where it can get pretty nasty on the mountain passes (No SNIPE >intended, for those in similar or worse climates). >Bill (I love to ski in the rockies) Stockton We are just north of Santa Fe at 7500' elevation. We average about 94 inches of snow per year. Bo knows snowy mountain roads. Cal (Who drove from Durango to Telluride in the MKII at 15mph in a near white-out because he too loves to ski in the Rockies) Smith :-) ------------------------------ From: uunet!ix.netcom.com!nazgul (Roderick Mielo ) Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 17:06:49 -0800 Subject: turbo Magazine Turbo Mag can be reached at : 9887 Hamilton Ave. Huntington Beach, CA. 92646 USA Phone: 714- 9627795 Regards. - -- zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Roderick Mielo, alias: nazgul@ix.netcom.com From Castle Rock's "Wolf Shire" Ranch zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!KipAnderso Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:34:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Blistering In a message dated 95-12-08 23:16:33 EST, you write: >> My 93 turbo is blistering on the passenger side of the dashboard. It >> ... >> Has anyone else had this happen on their Mk II? The car has 56k >> miles on it. As a result of mileage, the Toyota area rep said they would >> only assist with 50% of the cost of the part. My logic was that this is > >This sounds like a defect to me... I'd start complaining a little louder... Yup, threaten to go to Night Line or something. - -Kip ------------------------------ From: "Mark A. Shehan" Date: 09 Dec 95 11:36:08 EST Subject: Re: High mileage MKII turbo Re: High mileage MKII turbo I would look up the MR2 FAQ list to see what you can expect to replace over the life of your car. Unfortunately/fortunately? I autocross my MR2 turbo every weekend from April through October (and have done so since '91) all over the midwest, so I'm probably a bad example of component durability. I'm sure Toyota would like to have me for their 99% percentile customer! :) I've probably experienced 3/4 or more of the failures listed in the FAQ applicable to my car. I will have a repair history available for my car in the coming weeks if anyone is interested. We just received our first significant snowfall for the season last night (2 - 4 inches, depending on where you live in southeast Michigan), so we'll see how the MR2 gets around today (fortunately I do have mud and snow tires mounted at all four corners). Mark Shehan '91 MKII turbo t-top red 145K miles ------------------------------ From: "Mark A. Shehan" Date: 09 Dec 95 11:36:00 EST Subject: Re: MKII timing belt questions Replacing the timing belt on my MKII turbo was a major pain in the a%$! The first time I had the dealer do it. Their time/labor standards guide mentioned something about 3 - 4 hours to change it..... wrong!.... it took them about 6 hours (actually I think it was closer to the 8 that you mentioned). Look through your shop manual to see what tools you will need... you WILL need a shop manual to perform a timing belt swap and a lot of patience. Make sure you have four good jack stands, a good floor jack, and a heated garage if you it's winter in your area.... as you will be under the car quite a lot. As far as odd tools needed, off the top of my head I seem to recall that you'll need a .050" hex wrench to be used with the belt idler pulley assembly or whatever it's called in the manual. Hope this helps. Mark Shehan '91 MKII turbo t-top red 145 K miles Ann Arbor, Michigan USA ------------------------------ From: "Mark A. Shehan" Date: 09 Dec 95 11:36:02 EST Subject: Re: MKII n/a in the need for speed Check out the MR2 FAQ at "mr2_faq_request@diane.csg.mot.com" for information. The usual recommendations are for a K&N or Powerflow filter and an aftermarket exhaust (or straightpipe). Mark Shehan '91 MKII turbo t-top red 145 K miles ------------------------------ From: "Mark A. Shehan" Date: 09 Dec 95 11:35:58 EST Subject: Re: Drivetrain clunk You may want to check the two bolts that attach the front motor mount to the engine. These have had a tendency to loosen up (even fall out) on my '91 MKII turbo (especially after the second engine was put in). The loose/missing bolts will cause a clunking noise as you let the clutch out. Mark Shehan '91 MKII turbo t-top red 145 K miles ------------------------------ From: "Mark A. Shehan" Date: 09 Dec 95 11:36:04 EST Subject: Re: MKII second gear part number Sean- The fourth gear for my '91MKII (May '90 build) had a part number 33303517021, and the third gear part number was 33303417021, so I'm guessing that the second gear part number is 33303317021. The list price for the fourth gear was $114.60 US, and the list price for the third gear was $96.67 US. Hope this helps. Mark Shehan '91 MKII turbo t-top red 145 K miles ------------------------------ From: "Mark A. Shehan" Date: 09 Dec 95 11:36:06 EST Subject: Re: MKII rear window I wasn't aware that the rear window in the MKII was plastic. I'm highly skeptical. Are you sure? Either way (glass or plastic), you can probably use some fine polishing compound to get the scratch out. I haven't scratched the rear window in my MKII yet and I've had to scrape ice and snow off it for five winters now (southeast Michigan). Hmmmm. Mark Shehan 91 MKII turbo t-top red 145K miles ------------------------------ From: "George T. Hilliker" Date: 09 Dec 95 12:38:32 EST Subject: mr2-digest V1 #57 Gary Friedman, Sometimes rural is better. My next door neighbor is the contract attorney for GM when facing a law suite from an irate customer. He has helped my son win a '96 replacement truck from Chevrolet when his '95 popped out of gear and crased into a culvert. He says "Never stop until you get what you want!". He is also of the legal opinion that you, as the consumer, have the upper hand in every state and under every circumstance when dealing with a car company; dealer or corporate. My '93T came with all the manuals supplied by Toyota (not workshop), including a brochure that had an incredible outline of your legal rights, state by state and a suggested course of action if you have a problem with Toyota. I was impressed! I bought mine used but I called Toyota and they told me exactly when my car was placed in service, who bought it and asked if I wanted to be registered as the current owner. All remaining warranty transferred with the car. Again, I was impressed! The dealer is a local yahoo who could care less about me or my car. They will make a lot of noise about certified mechanics when they are trying to sell a car but the real situation is that attitude is where it's at and my local dealer has a terrible attitude! Not so with Toyota corporate. They have been really helpful and are willing to talk to you about your car (even the documentation center is knowledgable about MR2s)!!! Bottom line...If your local dealer does not cooperate on the first try, don't bother with them any more, go straight to Toyota corporate. gth - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- George T. Hilliker '93T, T-Tops, 12K, Very Red Personal E-Mail: 71043.1023@compuserve.com Home Page: www.goshen.net/DataCommGroupInc/ ++ In Service to H+M ++ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "George T. Hilliker" Date: 09 Dec 95 12:38:38 EST Subject: mr2-digest V1 #57 Mike, et. al., Re: My *PLASTIC* rear window. I agree that US specs would indicate Safety Glass for the rear window, but... I scratched it with the handle of a canoe paddle (don't ask). When I tap on it with a fingernail from the inside is feels and sounds like plastic, from the outside it feels and sounds like glass. Is it possible that it is not a sandwich like USA1 but a laminate, one side glass coated with plastic on the inside ( which would also seal the defrost wires to the glass). It looks like plastic, it feels like pastic and scratches like plastic. Could it be a duck? Anybody with access to Toyota parts or info have an idea? Were some of them glass and some plastic? Could this have been a non-US option that slipped through the cracks? I am searching for the polish some of you have recommended. It's not real easy to find anything other than a McDonalds in the good ole rural South. Thanks for the all the comments so far. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- George T. Hilliker '93T, T-Tops, 12K, Very Red (& dirty at the moment) Personal E-Mail: 71043.1023@compuserve.com Home Page: www.goshen.net/DataCommGroupInc/ ++ In Service to H+M ++ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #58