mr2-digest Friday, 8 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 057 1 & 2 gear ratio change RE: In need of speed!!!! Injector cleaners re: tim,ing belt MSD Spark Plug Wires Follow-Up Plastic rear windows Alternative Place to Find Jacob's Ignition Re: Why won't this '85 idle after 65 mph driving? Re: mr2-digest V1 #56 RE: Cold air box/intake on 91 NA Turbo Questions Re: blistering dashboard Re: Specifics about boost/ignition RE: Studless Tires 91->93 susp changes? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: uunet!cc.curtin.edu.au!TBYRNESM Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 16:34:48 +0800 Subject: 1 & 2 gear ratio change HI all Still having problems locating a part number for the second gear. I am considering building the box with the first and second gear of a Celica GT4 (all-trac) its a same gearbox but with different ratios. The problem is that the 1 and second gear are considerably taller then the MR2 turbos. My second option is to build it with a second gear from a NA which has similar ratios. ( have to talk to an expert about this) I did find a gearbox and engine here in perth from a 93 turbo still in the car which was shipped from Japan as a wreck. Its the same box and they want $A1200 for it plus I need to trade mine in.... Nope!!! Toooooo expensive.. The whole unit is about $4500 plus wiring harness etc. So Thats my dilemma. If anybody is considering going to the dealers soon could they ask their dealer if they would supply the part numbers required to rebuild a 1991 turbo gearbox. It would be a tremendous help as Toyota Australia looks at me funny when I tell them I have a turbo MR2. Makes life pretty frustating when they say they can't help you as they do not carry that kind of information for that model (turbo) MR2. My contact number is 354 1992 ( Australia ) Fax number is 457 0727 Please if any kind soul can help Cheers Sean Byrne MKII Turbo Perth W.A. ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!AstonMrtn Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 02:38:29 -0500 Subject: RE: In need of speed!!!! > > I'm new here and I just bought a 1993 Mr2. 2.2 Black on black , >T-tops, 6 >speaker >.ALPINE, fully loaded. I was wondering if somebody could >help me >out I'm looking > for more power without adding a turbo. What >engine tips >do you have. I also > wanted to know if high rpm is >normal for >this car. At 70 mph it runs at 3500rpm. Is this > good or bad? I >can be >reached at this address----psmith@mofo.com.. > I have a '91 NA and have been looking for more power, too...but havn't found much. You can get an exhaust for $500 (HKS, Greddy, ?). Better ignition system (HKS, Jacobs, or ?). If it's a CA car, switch header pipes (illegal though) for 5hp ($200). That'll get you around 145-150, supposedly. You could also rebuild your engine and add some (anyone done this?)...heh heh heh. Other than that, I'd concentrate on tweaking your engine - porting/matching the intake manifold and head, installing GOOD spark plug wires (lots of discussion about that lately), maybe look at ways to reduce the temperature of the intake air (it may not be a turbo, but the same theory applies, right? Colder air=denser=more power) without adding an intercooler (too much restriction for non-turbo). The high rpm is normal. THe NA is geared diffferent from the Turbo; the turbo runs about 1000rpm lower on the highway, from what I've noticed. The NA may be running high, but having the engine near the torque curve peak sure makes highway driving more fun! The acceleration of my car from 70-100 is very nice! - -Matt G. '91 NA, white ------------------------------ From: "ROBERT C. SHAW" Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 01:33:26 -0600 (CST) Subject: Injector cleaners Hey Cal, has your microscopy helped confirm or deny any of the rumors that these over the counter cleaners can dissolve seals, bushings or hoses? ------------------------------ From: Stuart Smith Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 09:19:44 GMT Subject: re: tim,ing belt From: Scott McBurney > i'm going to try to change the timing belt in my 93NA. the dealer said they > just did one and it took their best mech 10 hours and the cost would be $550. > i decided i could buy the tools for that much. i know i need the repair > manual, a torque wrench, a belt tension gauge, metric sockets, and a floor > jack, but does anyone who has done the mkii NA job have any other > suggestions. :For $550 you are getting ripped off. You should find a different :toyota dealer. I had my timing belt done at my dealer a :year ago. It was under $250, parts and labor included. I think I can even beat that (for a Mk1 anyway). I had mine done last week. Toyota wanted 130 pounds for the belt change. I phoned around places, and most wouldn't touch it... but I phoned Halfords (a car accessory/ servicing place, but with REAL mechanics) who quoted me 64 pounds inclusive.. I couldn't believe it, one other place which priced it, said his workshop book quoted 100 pounds (4 hours) for labour alone!.. Anyway this was a 'garanteed' price, so I booked it in and asked them to keep the old one for me { not that I didn't trust them you understand :-) }. The car was ready on time, the job done fine, and the old timing belt available for my viewing. A saving of 65 quid! Not bad eh? Stu ------------------------------ From: "Marc L. Summers-SysAdmin" Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 4:11:12 PST Subject: MSD Spark Plug Wires Follow-Up >You think it's expensive ? Check out this resistance figures, I couldn't >believe it that I had to check it twice with two different ohmmeters (MR2 set): >Coil wire 80 ohm >Wire 1 53.9 and 54.9 ohm >Wire 2 65.6 and 67.1 ohm >Wire 3 67.0 and 68.0 ohm >Wire 4 70.8 and 70.9 ohm >I think this is much lower than Magnecor and Jacob wires figures. Not to >mention the OEM wires. Well, then someone is reading the resistance of the wires wrong. The previously posted values for the Magnecore wires were very much HIGHER than what you state above. It also seems to me that with values that low you would be experiencing a great deal of static noise on your stereo system and also possibly leaking into your ECU and various other electronics on board. If I were you I would be very concerned. - -- + ------------------------------------------------- + + +++ N E C +++ +++ A M E R I C A +++ + + ------------------------------------------------- + + Marc L. Summers System Administrator + + 3100 N.E. Shute Road Hillsboro Oregon 97124 + + PH: 1-503-681-3338 FAX: 1-503-681-3304 + + Email: marcs@tdd.hbo.nec.com + + ---------- Sic transit gloria mundi. ------------ + + --- "Thus passes away the glory of the world." -- + + ------------------------------------------------- + ------------------------------ From: uunet!diane.csg.mot.com!mikep (Mike Pittelkow) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 07:45:50 -0600 Subject: Plastic rear windows >rear window: >why is it plastic? i thought you could only put automotive safety glass in >the passenger compartment of a car (in the US that is..) Exactly. It's automotive safety glass. Even glass can be scratched if you, say, run a metal sraper across it (don't ask me how I know) "Automotive Safety Glass" is a sandwich of special glass and plastic sheets. The plastic keeps the glass together when it breaks, keeping you from going through it, and reducing the quantity of flying glass. If I remember, the glass itself is heat treated to make it shatter into smaller, round edged pieces. I think it's glass on the outside, and plastic on the inside, but again, it's been a while since my freshman introduction to ceramics. - -mike +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | mikep@diane.csg.mot.com | Email to mr2_faq_request@diane.csg.mot.com | +--------------------------+ with subject "FAQ" for a copy of the most recent| |1993 MR2Turbo #223 FRINGE1| MR2 FAQ. Suggestions to mr2@diane.csg.mot.com | +--------------------------+-------------------------------------------------+ | The views, information and opinions in this message are mine, not my | | employers, unless explicitly stated. Nyah. Don't set fire to strangers. | | Motorola Cordless, Libertyville, IL 60089 (w)708-523-8273 (h)708-520-3783 | +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ From: Thomas F Wahjudi Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:32:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Alternative Place to Find Jacob's Ignition You guys might want to try Summit Racing. They do carry Jacob's stuff and they are cheaper than if you buy direct from Jacob's (free 2nd day shipping too !). I don't have their number handy right now, I will post it if anyone asks. I'm not affiliated with Summit Racing whatsoever, I'm just trying to help list members. ______________________________________________________________________________ Thomas F. Wahjudi 1982 Pink Pearl Toyota Land Cruiser FJ-40... Indonesian RHD, I6, CDI, Downey 270 deg. cam, 190amp alternator, ARB air lockers, PTO, rear full-floating axle, 4.88 gears, Go Rhino! trusses, 4-speed, OEM power steering, fr. disc brakes, 35" BFG MT, custom roll bar and seats. Pictures are at Dean Water's 4x4 Web Page and Ian Staines' Toyota Land Cruiser Homepage : http://www.indirect.com/user/a4x4/4x4.html http://mindlink.net/Ian_Staines/tlc.htm twahjudi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu TLCA member # 2926, a proud one ! _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Itrat Khan Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:17:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Why won't this '85 idle after 65 mph driving? I have a very similar problem. In a previous digest, I asked about why the MKI idles so high when it's cold. That doesn't bother me, but sometimes when the thermostat *is* cold, the car idles normally at 800 rpm. I usually wait until the car idles at 800 rpm before moving, so in this case I think it's okay to start going. As soon as I have to disengage the clutch, the RPMs start dropping, but they don't stop! They drop right down to 0 and the car stalls! This usually happens when I have the car stops at a traffic light, so I start her up again, the engine idles *very* roughly at 500 RPM for about 20 seconds, and then acts normally. (When I start the car again, it idles roughly at 500. Sometimes it just keeps stalling over and over unless I (i) keep my foot on the accelerator and maintain 800 rpm myself, or (ii) push really hard on the brake (don't know why that works).) If I let the thermostat reach normal operating temperature before putting it in gear, this *never* happens. So that's what I do. I don't think the problem you're describing is a result of your car's age. My '89SC has been doing that ever since I got it at 50K kms. I suppose something just needs a synch, but I've never figured out what. If you ever do come up with a solution (or get suggestions), I'd be really interested to hear about it. Q: Has this happenned before the car went to the shop. Maybe they forget to put the car back the same way they took it apart. It happenned to my brother's Supra once. He just took it in and they corrected it. Itrat - -- __________________________________________________________________________ Itrat Khan e-mail: khan@gaul.csd.uwo.ca 4th-year Computer Science London, Ontario University of Western Ontario "MR2 Forever..." ------------------------------ From: uunet!ritvax.isc.rit.edu!EMS8110 Date: Fri, 08 Dec 1995 10:53:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #56 >Why won't this '85 idle after 65 mph driving? >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: uunet!fnal.gov!demaat >Date: Thu Dec 07 10:43:37 1995 >Subject: Why won't this '85 idle after 65 mph driving? >We just got my wife's '85 MR-2 back from the shop where we >had to have the head gasket replaced. We'd like to keep the >car for a while so we went ahead and had a valve job done >as long as the head was off and compression was on the low >end of the scale. But now it won't idle after expressway >driving. >When cold, the engine idles at 1600 to 1800 rpm. When it >warms up, it settles at about 800 rpm around town. This is >just what the service manual says it should be. However, >when I drive it on the tollway for 15 minutes at 65-70 mph, >the engine dies at the toll booth. I can immediately restart >it and I can keep it going by keeping pressure on the accelerator >but it won't idle on its own.. After a minute or two around town >it gets back to 700 or 800 rpm idle. I noticed that when I push >in the clutch and let off on the gas the rpm will dip to about >500 before settling at 800. (This could be normal. I don't know) >Is there a particular system on the car that would be responsible >for this behavior or is it likely that some part(s) on the 10-year >old engine are just worn and I should simply raise the idle a bit >and live with it? I would prefer to not let the shop do more work >if there isn't likely to be an obvious cause. I don't see a >symptom like this listed in the Toyota or Haynes manual. It's a >normally aspirated engine. >Bob DeMaat demaat@fnal.gov >Husband of Jan, the '85 MR-2 owner/operator This is absolutely typical of an Oxygen sensor than needs to be replaced. Your friendly Toyota dealer will have no clue about this. Trust me, it's the Oxy sesor. I've had identical symptoms. What happens is that after a highway drive (lean condition, don't need too much gas), you come to a stop and the engine needs to run reacher at idle. But the Oxy sensor is too slow to react. That's why the dip in RPM. Sometimes it recover, most times it does not. Do not buy a Toyota O2 sensor. Buy any aftermarket 1-wire kind for $40 or so. Yor milage will go up about 5 mph, among other things and the stalling will stop. Email if any further info is needed. PS. Why was the head gasket changed?? Mike.S ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!AstonMrtn Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 21:38:19 -0500 Subject: RE: Cold air box/intake on 91 NA Derek Motloch said: >I saw your question in the MR2 digest about making a cold air box, >or an intake..... > >I own a 91 NA, and have done this. If you are interested in my >ideas, and >design, I'd be glad to help ya out.... I have noticed a minor >imporvment in >performance in general, much better performance on the highway, >and 42 miles/gallon on the highway too.... Doesn't the intake already get routed to the left air scoop, right in front of the rear wheel? I'd be interested in hearing what you did to yours...especially how you were able to get 42 mpg!! I've never gotten more than 27 (of course, I never less than 70 of the freeway :)! - -Matt G. '91 NA astonmrtn@aol.com ------------------------------ From: uunet!getnet.com!doug (Doug Hutter) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:19:00 -0700 (MST) Subject: Turbo Questions Two Questions: 1) Has anyone the address handy for Turbo Magazine? 2) Can anyone give a fairly concise, in-layman's-terms definition of how a turbo works, so I can satisfy these nagging questions from my wife who repeatedly says, at about 85 mph in 4th gear -- "WOW, how does it DO that???" DOUG HUTTER PHOENIX, AZ __@ __O DOUG HUTTER _-\<,-\<,_ doug@getnet.com PHOENIX, AZ (*)/---/ (*) fax: 602/276-0794 ------------------------------ From: uunet!softy.softwords.bc.ca!geoff Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 13:51:35 PST Subject: Re: blistering dashboard Gary Friedman wrote: > My 93 turbo is blistering on the passenger side of the dashboard. It > ... > Has anyone else had this happen on their Mk II? The car has 56k > miles on it. As a result of mileage, the Toyota area rep said they would > only assist with 50% of the cost of the part. My logic was that this is This sounds like a defect to me... I'd start complaining a little louder... Geoff '91t, 159,000km ------------------------------ From: uunet!Rt66.com!cal (Cal Smith) Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 13:22:19 -0700 Subject: Re: Specifics about boost/ignition Gerald, Have you tried opening the gap up any? I know it is a lot less boost, but I've been running comfortably at 0.031" to 0.033" at 18.5psi. I know you have to close the gap up with increasing boost, but is 0.025" all you can get out of it at 30psi? FYI, I have been running the new Delco Rapidfires in my MR2T on the street with quite impressive results. This is probably not due to the radpidfire design as much as the wider pre-set gap (0.043" as measured!). I guess they do not want you to gap these manually as the sharp edges of the electrode might be damaged. I suspect that if I ran my old trusty Autolite 3294s at the same gap the results would be 90%-95% identical. What I have gotten with the rapidfires has been a BIG increase in mileage--I'm getting the same range out of a mixed city/highway tankfull with moderate to aggressive driving as I was at 65mph steady-state highway cruise with my previous 0.031"-0.033" gap Autolites. We're talking over 33mpg in mixed driving. :-). Power is up,too...to a point: The problem is that at about 7psi boost I begin to get the same flameouts that every gap gets at some point. The 0.031"-0.033" Autolites were comfortable at 18.5psi, and your plugs seem to be limited to 0.025" at 30psi boost (if my assumption is correct). Nothing is wrong, I'm just running into the same wall every boosted-engine designer faces; a compromise between off-boost power/economy and on-boost power/economy. When the flameouts come at 7psi, I end up dumping a lot of unburned fuel/air into the exhaust and make no power. The compromise I am living with for now is to keep the wider-gap plugs in the car for general driving and keep a more narrow-gapped set handy for race day. I can live with less power on the street in exchange for a huge boost in fuel economy (at 7psi I can still dust most anything I need to on the street). The boost can easily be limited by a simple master slider on my BoostGraphic. What I am intrigued by is the 'Nology wire concept. It seems to me that a single, _short_ spark of _very high arc-over voltage_ can make the large-gap jump and successfully ignite the mixture, while a lower arc-over voltage, longer-duration strategy is subseptible to interruption by the turbulent, high-pressure intake mixture. Thus we could use the same large gap for street or racing, or go wide for racing and _really_ wide for the street. Am I rambling or what?, Cal P.S.- I am forwarding this to the list and to Marc Summers directly, as it seems relevant to all of us. ------------------------------ From: William Stockton Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 13:00 EST Subject: RE: Studless Tires On 12/07 in Digest #55 Cal Smith wrote: "with snow tires AND A GOOD WINTER ALIGNMENT" Cal, How do your camber, caster and toe settings change from the summer(RACING) alignment to the winter(snow+ice) alignment. I have a pretty good idea of setting up the car for racing(AutoX), but what would you change to obtain "A GOOD WINTER ALIGNMENT"? Also what kind of winters are you talking about? I live in Colorado where it can get pretty nasty on the mountain passes (No SNIPE intended, for those in similar or worse climates). Bill (I love to ski in the rockies) Stockton WSTOCKTON@MCIMAIL.COM White '91 Turbo (54,452 miles, TSSF 122) ------------------------------ From: Ken Sumrall Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 14:46:02 -0800 Subject: 91->93 susp changes? Hi gang, I know this has been discussed before, but I didn't save all the info about it. The way I remember it, in 1993, the MR2's suspension got beefed up with: 1. Wider tires 2. Bigger rims 3. LSD differential 4. Stiffer rear sway bar Now we all know the MR2 can be tail happy given the right circumstances, and I remember someone saying if the rear-end is tail happy, you should stiffen the front of the car to keep more weight on the back to improve traction. However, the '93 MR2s stiffened the rear sway bar, (according to my memory, which may be wrong. :-) So what gives? Did I remember the '93 changes incorrectly, or did I misunderstand the "stiffen the front" statement? Ken Sumrall and Merlin, black '91T w/T-Tops ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #57