mr2-digest Thursday, 7 December 1995 Volume 01 : Number 055 re: timing belt MSD Spark Plug Wires Follow-Up DIS Jacobs Electronics RPS Turbo Clutch Re: Brake Fluid / "Brake" idiot light Fuel Injector Cleaners re: injectors, long trips, rear window Cold air box/Intake on 91 NA Jacobs Wires, Nology/Beru Ignition RE: studless tires RE: Dist.less ignition Re: Speaker box blistering dashboard ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Scott McBurney Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 08:47:15 -0600 Subject: re: timing belt From: uunet!harvey.carol.net!bob (Robert Rogers) Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 17:52:06 -0500 Subject: timing belt questions > i'm going to try to change the timing belt in my 93NA. the dealer said they > just did one and it took their best mech 10 hours and the cost would be $550. > i decided i could buy the tools for that much. i know i need the repair > manual, a torque wrench, a belt tension gauge, metric sockets, and a floor > jack, but does anyone who has done the mkii NA job have any other > suggestions. > thanks > bob rogers > bob@carol.net For $550 you are getting ripped off. You should find a different toyota dealer. I had my timing belt done at my dealer a year ago. It was under $250, parts and labor included. *-----------------------------------------------------------------* * Scott McBurney '91 MR2 Auto 135k miles License: QUIK MR 2 * * Internet: smcburne@dewar.mhs.compuserve.com * * Dewar Information Systems - A Sysdeco Media Company * * 3050 Finley Road, Suite 301 * * Downers Grove, IL 60515 "I drive, therefore I am" * *-----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ From: Thomas F Wahjudi Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 09:13:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: MSD Spark Plug Wires Follow-Up Yesterday, I receive the MSD wires from Magnecore. I installed the wires for the '95 Talon AWD. It works great, no RFI or EMI whatsoever up to now. The set for MR2 I will install in about two weeks when I visit my brother in Riverside, CA. I will recommend these wires if you are looking for a set. One drawback is that the price for setting up the wires comes up to about $80 for my case (I bought MSD universal kit for V8 for $70, 5 wires go for MR2 and 4 for Talon). To put on boots, Magnecore charged me ~ $45 a set, so $35 ($70/2) plus $45 is $80, the same for the Talon. JEG'S helped me save with their free S&H. You think it's expensive ? Check out this resistance figures, I couldn't believe it that I had to check it twice with two different ohmmeters (MR2 set): Coil wire 80 ohm Wire 1 53.9 and 54.9 ohm Wire 2 65.6 and 67.1 ohm Wire 3 67.0 and 68.0 ohm Wire 4 70.8 and 70.9 ohm I think this is much lower than Magnecor and Jacob wires figures. Not to mention the OEM wires. _______________________________________________________________________________ Thomas F. Wahjudi 1982 Pink Pearl Toyota Land Cruiser FJ-40... Indonesian RHD, I6, CDI, Downey 270 deg. cam, 190amp alternator, ARB air lockers, PTO, rear full-floating axle, 4.88 gears, Go Rhino! trusses, 4-speed, OEM power steering, fr. disc brakes, 35" BFG MT, custom roll bar and seats. Pictures are at Dean Water's 4x4 Web Page and Ian Staines' Toyota Land Cruiser Homepage : http://www.indirect.com/user/a4x4/4x4.html http://mindlink.net/Ian_Staines/tlc.htm twahjudi@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu TLCA member # 2926, a proud one ! _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!CybrRacn54 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:08:04 -0500 Subject: DIS In a message dated 95-12-07 08:31:30 EST, you write: >Has anyone used a distributorless ignition system on an >MR2 or for that matter, on any car? > >I saw one advertized at our local Baxter's auto parts store >for around $450 less the crank trigger. > >If anyone out there has used this or has any info on it >I would appreciate talking with you about it. > >It seems like an interesting system, I would like to know >if there would be any real advantages to using it, such as >more precise control of the spark, longer duration, crank >trigger instead of stock distributor. > > I'm using an Electromotive unit that incorporates a Direct Fire Ignition System. Spark seems a lot stronger (it easily lights up almost any fuel ratio and boost I can throw at it). Also, high rpm seems a little stronger, since there are two coils. This allows each coil to sufficiently recharge between sparks. As far as resolution, Electromotive claims accuracy to 1/4 of a degree. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger Cyber Racing, So Cal. ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!CybrRacn54 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:08:06 -0500 Subject: Jacobs Electronics In a message dated 95-12-07 08:31:30 EST, you write: >Does anyone have a phone number/address where I could order Jacobs Energy > >Core Wires for my MKII? A part number would be helpful too.Please > >reply either to the digest or my CompuServe account. Thanks. > > Jacobs Electronics 500 North Baird St. Midland, Texas 79701 (800) 955-3345 (Information and Sales) (915) 687-0203 (FAX) ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!CybrRacn54 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:08:02 -0500 Subject: RPS Turbo Clutch In a message dated 95-12-07 08:31:30 EST, you write: >Anyone have any experience with the RPS turbo clutch? (This clutch is used >in >Kali N.'s 12-second MR2 in the latest Turbo magazine) > > I've spoken to several owners of MKIIs that have the RPS Turbo Clutch and they seem to like it. I checked out how these clutches were made and found out they were actually Daikin clutches that were rebuilt by RPS. They strengthen that pressure plate and coat the friction surface using a special technique (I saw it in Turbo Magazine years ago). It decreases wear and glazing. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger Cyber Racing, So Cal. ------------------------------ From: uunet!mpf.jpl.nasa.gov!dsmyth (David Smyth) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 08:58:00 PST Subject: Re: Brake Fluid / "Brake" idiot light Two different articles, same problem: > Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 22:46:09 -0800 > From: uunet!bendnet.com!jdshort@uunet.uu.net (John & Diana Short) > Subject: mr2 road trips & heal/toe > > After hard track time, brake pedal seems to depress further making the > transition to the gas more difficult, but certainly thats not a problem for > the morning commute on our country roads. Maybe I need better fluid or ??? > Ideas anyone? > Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 13:26:58 PST > From: "Marc L. Summers-SysAdmin" > Subject: Brake light on at near lockup > > It sounds to me that the brake fluid is just at the > edge of having the light come on, and then the force > of the braking comes on, it causes the light to come on. > > Seems like just a touch of added brake fluid would fix > the problem. > > The sensor in the master cylinder is rather touchy. What is happening is the same in both these cases: as the brake pads wear, they must be pushed in closer to the disks (as the disks wear, same situation). To push the pads further from the caliper, it takes more fluid. Hence, your brake fluid level drops. That's why the indicator does not say "brake fluid," because that is only a symptom of the problem: you need to change your pads. Well, maybe John doesn't yet. You probably never need to add brake fluid (if you are leaking brake fluid, then youve got $$$ problems): when the fluid is low, then replace the pads, and the fluid will be back up to the top of the resevoir. ______________________________________________________________________ | David E. Smyth David.E.Smyth@jpl.nasa.gov |_ | Mars Pathfinder Flight Software -- Object-Oriented Software for Mars | | |______________________________________________________________________| | | "It isn't exactly rocket science... well, I guess maybe it is..." | | |______________________________________________________________________| | |______________________________________________________________________| ------------------------------ From: uunet!Rt66.com!cal (Cal Smith) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:14:12 -0700 Subject: Fuel Injector Cleaners You were asking about additives to clean injectors. I've done microscopy on dirty injectors and they can REALLY get clogged. The deposits are quite often crystalline and must be removed with NASTY solvents to which the general public does not have access. If you can, foot the bill to have a professional shop (either Toyota if they can do it or a fuel-injection business) clean them. On the up side, a fuel-injection business can flow test them to see if they flow approximately equally. Unfortunately the "detergent" gasolines and pour-in additives we can get across-the-counter are better suited to _preventing_ deposit build-up than _removing_ buildup. It will remove the "gummy gunk" (I just love technical terms! ;-) ) but it won't touch the harder crystalline deposits. Best of luck, Cal ------------------------------ From: uunet!harvey.carol.net!bob (Robert Rogers) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 15:19:20 -0500 Subject: re: injectors, long trips, rear window injector cleaners: on car repair call in shows on the radio they suggest the add to the fuel sort of cleaner is best used as preventative maintenance. add it when you change the oil. i have been told there is also some sort of pressure cleaning for injectors where they use long tubes to access them through the fuel line or the valves or something. the cost is about $50us. i had it done but noticed no difference so maybe they didn't really do anything.. long trips: i use a polymer "wax" with teflon on the windshield. i put it on in the sun and let it bake a few minutes. once you get to 50mph in a mkII the rain blows off. sort of like rainex, but one less thing to buy. rear window: why is it plastic? i thought you could only put automotive safety glass in the passenger compartment of a car (in the US that is..) 93NA bob rogers bob@carol.net ------------------------------ From: Derek Motloch Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 13:18:16 -0500 Subject: Cold air box/Intake on 91 NA Hello, down in Australia, Andrew Johnson asked, and I said: I saw your question in the MR2 digest about making a cold air box, or an intake..... I own a 91 NA, and have done this. If you are interested in my ideas, and design, I'd be glad to help ya out.... I have noticed a minor imporvment in performance in general, much better performance on the highway, and 42 miles/gallon on the highway too.... Let me know.... - --------------------------------------------- Derek Motloch - 91na dmotloch@serix.com http://serix.com/~dmotloch/ - --------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: uunet!Rt66.com!cal (Cal Smith) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:04:54 -0700 Subject: Jacobs Wires, Nology/Beru Ignition Try Jacobs at (800)627-8800. They will have the wire set number. If you want Jacobs electronics components (which are good stuff), I'd have to say shop around from the mail-order houses in Turbo magazine and in Sport Compact Car magazine. The mail-order prices can be SUBSTANTIALLY better than the prices directly from Jacobs. On a wire set, you might save a few buck going mail-order, too, FWIW. On the topic of wires, I'm not sure if the ultimate wire/plug set isn't the Nology wires with Beru plugs. I would definately keep my Jacobs Pro-8 (Pro-Street) computer and Ultra Coil, but the wires look like a different way to do what Dr. Jacobs recommended in his ignition book (get it-it's great reading and only $30)--having a large open gap before the spark plug which causes a much higher voltage initial spark to be emitted from the plug with a _very_ short rise time. Also, the Beru plugs are reported to be much lower resistance than either the Champion 3294s or the Delco Rapidfires I've used (Why have 200ohm/foot ignition wires only to throw a 4000-5000 ohm resistor at the end of the line (equivalent to another 20-25 feet of ignition wire!). Netters--anyone used the Nology wires or Beru plugs? What were your impressions? Cal ------------------------------ From: uunet!Rt66.com!cal (Cal Smith) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:05:08 -0700 Subject: RE: studless tires Two tires that you may not have seen are the Michelin XM+S 130 and its really aggressive brother, the XM+S 330. The 130 is almost as good in the snow as the 330 and is a better tire on general, non-snowy surfaces. While neither tire is quite as good as the Blizzak in stopping distances, etc., they don't miss the mark by much and are closer to the Blizzak's numbers than anything else made. Why not just get Blizzaks you say? Bridgestone only saw fit to give the Blizzak the really good multicell tread compound for 55% of its tread-depth whereas the Michelins are full tread-depth multicell--the Michelins will outperform the Blizzaks in the long run, still sticking like new when the Bridgestone reverts to its lower-performance "all-weather" compound. Remember, the speed rating is for _continuous_ use. I've had the Michelin 130's repeatedly at 105+mph (early season drag-races where we might've come home in the snow: XM+S 130 fronts, BFG Comp T/A R1's on the rear!). You were correct to get the same size all the way around. What you are trying to do is cut a groove through the snow that the rears can track through without having to plow new snow, and wide rears would NOT do that. Remember, tall and skinny is better than short and wide for snow driving (tires, that is :) ). You want the mass of the car to be focused on pressure points that will punch through the show/ice to get to the underlying pavement. A little contact patch getting good adhesion is better than a big contact patch getting almost none. The wider/shorter the tire, the more the tendency to just float on top of the snow and ice. I run 185/60-14's on the '91 MR2T and 185/65-15's on my RX-7.Each of these were the thinnest + tallest available in the wheel size. They all cost $75/each. Yup, the sidewalls of real snow tires are awful. Compensate for the added roll and dive by cranking the adjustable Tokico struts up to a tighter setting. It isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing. Yeah, the underbelly tray takes a beating in certain places, and I imagine Toyota wants a second mortgage for replacements, but such is life. :( Actually with snow tires AND A GOOD WINTER ALIGNMENT (to keep the rear in place and give the car a tendency to understeer) the car is a dream in the snow. Even with an open differential, I hardly spun a tire last season (well, that is a tire that I didn't WANT to spin. ;-) ). The snow gives you a great opportunity to practice racing/autocross skills because you can test the car at its limits when the limits are much lower and easier to approach. Throttle steering, controlled slides, etc. can be mastered in the winter (and you won't be scrubbing off race rubber-$$$-to do it). Just be safe, wise, and find an empty parking lot. Cal ------------------------------ From: uunet!Rt66.com!cal (Cal Smith) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 13:06:09 -0700 Subject: RE: Dist.less ignition Hi Marc; Good to talk to you again! :-) Remeber, the distributor is just a way to parcel out the spark. The only problem with a distributor system is the tendency of the camshaft timing chain or belt to stretch at high rpm, retarding the timing by a couple of degrees. This is really only a problem in Detroit-style V-8's. We don't have the same problem because our camshaft doesn't face the same rotational impedence as a chevy 350 (much lighter valvetrain mass and lower-pressure valve springs = much less resistance to cam rotation at high engine speeds). As far as control of the spark, duration, and triggering, none of those things are a function of the distributor anymore (that went out with points). The triggering (via. the hall effect, same as ABS systems) of a modern distributor is very accurate, and as we don't face much upper-rpm cam retard, the ignition-triggering is pretty much perfect for anything short of ultra-endurance racing. The duration and control of the spark are both handled best by an aftermarket ignition computer (Jacobs, Accel, MSD, etc.). Remember; a spark doesn't fire when the distributor's rotor lines up with the output terminal for a given signal; The rotor tip/output terminal merely decides which cylinder gets the spark when the computer/amplifier/trigger says it is time to issue a spark. The rotor makes a connection with a given cylinder's plug wire for a much longer period than the actual spark duration. The "spark profile" (duration, voltage with respect to time, etc.) is determined by the aftermarket computer. FWIW, I might soon buy an aftermarket ECU for the Mr2, but the only way I will buy it is if I can use the stock MR2 ignition-triggering system and NOT the crank-triggered system that the computer normally comes with. There is no reason for me to go to the extra expense, time, effort, etc just to end up with a one-off custom design that is more fragile and tempermental than the stock system and will probably yield no perceptible improvement. Also, individual direct-fire coils for each cylinder with no distributor are not _better_ than a distributor/coil setup, just _less expensive_. It is less expensive to manufacture (as an OEM like FORD or GM) 4-8 modules of wire wrapped around a ferrous core than it is to produce an electro-mechanical distributor and coil system. It is purely a function of bean-counter economics. Which Jacobs system do you have? If you just bought the variable coil + wires, I would have to recommend the Jacobs "Mileage Master" or "Pro-Street" computer. Either will help accomplish what you desire. As for wires + plugs, please see my "Jacobs, Nology/Beru Ignition" post on today's digest. Later, Cal ------------------------------ From: uunet!idirect.com!mrtwo (Bill Chen) Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 16:44:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Speaker box Just a couple of questons: 1) I plan on getting a speaker box for behind the passenger seat of my 91 turbo next spring (after I fix the stereo). I was just wondering approximately how much would a typical custom box cost me and what should I look for in a box? I want more bass but not to the point of where my car is a moving boombox. 2) I've got just over 100km now and was curious to know at what mileage have other mkII turbo owners changed their timing belts? 3) I'm also ordering a K&N filter charger and was hoping to install this myself while the car is stored during the winter. If anyone has put one of these on themselves, just how diffulcult is it to do so? Are the instructions complete? Thanks in advance. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- |Bill Chen | |MrTwo@idirect.com | |36 Ingleborough Court Unionville, Ontario | |L3R 8M6 Canada | |(905) 946-1170 (416) 816-6135 | - ------------------Life begins at 150mph--------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Gary Friedman" Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 19:04:43 +0000 Subject: blistering dashboard My 93 turbo is blistering on the passenger side of the dashboard. It appears that the dash is made out of some kind of compressed foam and it is bubbling up from below. Kinda looks like hives or mumps right now. it is clear that the problem is going to get much worse (how long?). The car has only been titled and in service for just over 2 years. Has anyone else had this happen on their Mk II? The car has 56k miles on it. As a result of mileage, the Toyota area rep said they would only assist with 50% of the cost of the part. My logic was that this is NOT a mileage wear item, and, if anything, the high mileage means the car has been constantly driven in way hot Florida, kept cool, and not roasted in a parking space with high intensity light baking the dash. As a result, I thought Toyota may consider it a full "out of warranty- warranty repair.". Not. In any case, option (1) is 50 % of 600 for the part = 300, plus 290 labor to install it = over 600 after tax and stuff. My ass is going to be mighty sore if I go for this one!! Option (2) was getting a salvaged dash (100-150) and having it installed for less than half total. I have considered not doing either since my car doesn't make one rattling, vibrating, jiggling, or other eternally infuriating, impossible to troubleshoot away sound. I fear that taking apart that whole dash will result in vibrations and rattles I'll never be able to get rid of. A dash mat was another suggestion (3) , but I have never found them highly attractive (paisley velour with MR2 stamped all over perhaps??)? Any feedback on my blistering dilemma would be greatly appreciated (steam iron and spray starch??). Gary ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #55