mr2-digest Tuesday, 14 November 1995 Volume 01 : Number 031 Performance suggestions for (Shawn Gordon) Doors One of those days.... Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 Help Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 Re: High boost MR2's Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 Re: 12 second MR2 Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 Modified NA Power comments and ? Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 MKI leaking water pump ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc L. Summers-SysAdmin" Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 4:46:58 PST Subject: Performance suggestions for (Shawn Gordon) Hi Shawn Gordon: I have a 1993 MR2 Turbo and I will suggest that you get access to the MR2 WEB site and read some of my detailed instructions on performance improvements that I have done to my car. Specifically : The one on how to install an HKS FCD and increase boost. But to really do it up right you need the following: HKS super power flow filter (see my instructions) $165 (approx) I installed an Edlebrock RPM series turbo muffler $205 (muffler and installation) Jacobs Omni Pak Ignition system $265 (approx) Jacobs Energy Core ignition wires $ 54 Aftermarket intercooler fan (see my instructions) $ 70 HKS FCD $105 - --------------------------------------------------------------------- $864 So for less than $900 bucks, you can get up to just about 270 HP, which should put a little fear in the eyes of those guys with the Camaros, and TramsAms and maybe even the 300ZX, I'm not sure about the LT1, it can be fairly quick even for its size. All of the instructions to purchase and install the above, (except for the muffler), are at the MR2 WEB site. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Remember, have fun, and keep it below 150 MPH :^) - -- + ------------------------------------------------- + + +++ N E C +++ +++ A M E R I C A +++ + + ------------------------------------------------- + + Marc L. Summers System Administrator + + 3100 N.E. Shute Road Hillsboro Oregon 97124 + + PH: 1-503-681-3338 FAX: 1-503-681-3304 + + Email: marcs@tdd.hbo.nec.com + + ---------- Sic transit gloria mundi. ------------ + + --- "Thus passes away the glory of the world." -- + + ------------------------------------------------- + ------------------------------ From: uunet!diane.csg.mot.com!mikep (Mike Pittelkow) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 08:37:25 -0600 Subject: Doors The drivers side interior door lock jammed on me again this morning, trapping me in the car (luckyt thing I just -happened- to have a screwdriver with me) until I removed the interior door handle trim piece. Anyone else have a problem like this before? This is twice now for me, and it's a little upsetting :) - -mike ------------------------------ From: Scott McBurney Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 08:39:28 -0600 Subject: One of those days.... On the way to work this morning, I learned that it can sometimes be a good thing to be one of those "jerk" drivers that we all hate! As I was coming up the interstate to work this morning, there was the usual backup of over 1/2 mile for my exit. I was about to be polite and pull into the exit lane and wait my turn to get off (traffic was stopped at this point). Just before doing so, I decided I would be one of those "jerks" that always passes as many cars as possible before squeezing into a small space in between some cars. (normally, I hate people that do that). As soon as I started going to pass everyone, I saw a flash in my rear view mirror. As my eyes focused, I saw what I think was a red cavalier flipping over its front end and heading for me upside down! To say the least, I floored my MR2 and got out of its way. It looked like a semi truck probably going at least 45 rear ended a car that was stopped, and that car hit 5 or more other cars as it flipped. If I had been a polite driver, I probably wouldn't have an MR2 now, and I might have even been killed. Luckily, the passenger of the car that flipped got out and walked away! Its going to be a long day.... *-----------------------------------------------------------------* * Scott McBurney '91 MR2 Auto 133k miles License: QUIK MR 2 * * Internet: scott@dewar.com * * Dewar Information Systems - A Sysdeco Media Company * * 3050 Finley Road, Suite 301 * * Downers Grove, IL 60515 "I drive, therefore I am" * *-----------------------------------------------------------------* ------------------------------ From: Mark Sink - Imonics Corporation Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 10:17:30 -0500 Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 >>a stock-looking (except for some lowering) '93T that ran a 12.27 quarter >>mile. It was the fastest turbocharged import at some drag race. It had an >>aftermarket turbo and intercooler, but the engine internals were stock. It >>was running 20 psi of boost, which sounds awfully high for a stock engine. >Do you know this for a fact? >I find it very hard to believe that a stock engine could withstand >20 psi of boost for any length of time and still hold together. Well, you could probably run a Carrett T-15 at 30 psi, and get about 170 HP? Isn't PSI really a measure of the stress on the turbo, and not the engine? I'm not realy sure, as I have yet to own a turbocharged car. Should probaby look at HP output before deciding when the engine should fall apart, and not PSI. >He should be blowing head gaskets, and burning pistons. >Also I find it hard to believe that the stock injectors could deliver >sufficient fuel. Fuel is managed by a DFI unit, additional Bosch pump, -6 fuel line (what ever that is) and 550cc injectors. Mark ------------------------------ From: Duncan Peebles Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 15:51:20 GMT Subject: Help Help, Saturday eve, motoring down the A33 in Hampshire UK, its been raining and the leaves are everywhere going through Bracknell, nice free lane at the roundabout (circular thing you drive round at intersections for the US). OPPSS!! big fat puddle of water, back sneaks out, try to get control back, to fast, fish tails twice, spins 180, mount the kerb come to rest 5 inches from a lamp-post, avoiding 3 cars, a large ditch and serveral trees (backwards) all I get is a front tyre split. (There really is a GOD!!) I got the tyre replaced (Michelin 195/55 V15SHX) it was sunday thats all they had. Now the question I have is the bloke at the tyre centre said that the other side fronts tracking was out in the opposite direction I had just had a service done about 1 month before and the same wheels tracking was out so bad that the inside of the tyre was 0mm. DO I have a problem that is causing the right front to go out of balance if so what, or could this just me being paranoid (after slamming MR 2 into a kerb) shes seems to be ok now but I feel after this bang I should get "An Adult" to look at the car. Also now the temperature has dropped a bit, if I start the car in the morning I some times get a "backfire" any ideas. More info on request, sorry Im not to much of a sparkplug-head so don't start asking me if the giblet-squirrel value interloper quidlet by-pass vale is blue or aquamarine, all i know is that MR 2 don't like the wet to much, Ta Duncan MR2-GT 2.0 1992 "Charlotte" J799 YWC Most excellent skid marks in the mud though !! Sorry this is a bit rushed but I am only in the office this afternoon ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!CybrRacn54 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:47:30 -0500 Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 In a message dated 95-11-14 07:21:34 EST, you write: > >Here is the question that I pose to the group. I have a stock 91 Turbo >and I'm getting tired of getting spanked by 300ZX Twin Turbos and LT1 >Camaros/TramsAms. What can I do to get in the ballpark of these cars? >I do not want to do any internal mods just yet. (never really) I just >want some suggestions for those who have done mods and what they think >about them. I also follow the bang for the buck theory, so if you know >the price of the things you suggest that would be a great help as well. > >Thanks, >Shawn >shawng@microsoft.com >91 MR2 Turbo pick up an HKS or TRUST catalog. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger Cyber Racing, So. Cal. ------------------------------ From: uunet!softy.softwords.bc.ca!geoff Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 13:56:19 PST Subject: Re: High boost MR2's "Marc L. Summers-SysAdmin" wrote: > Question: you have seen other "stock" MR2s that push 20 psi of boost? Talk to Richard Soluk. His car is using in excess of 25 pounds of boost. (From what he tells me :-) And no, his car is anything BUT stock... Geoff '91t, 156,500km ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!CybrRacn54 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:47:31 -0500 Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 In a message dated 95-11-14 07:21:34 EST, you write: > >Question: you have seen other "stock" MR2s that push 20 psi of boost? > >How many pieces was the engine in after the 1/4 mile run? > >I find this very hard to believe, after having several long >conversations with Cal Smith and a few others, I myself don't >dare push even 17 psi boost. And the stock turbo isn't good >for anything much above 17.5 psi, let alone the injectors >to deliver the fuel and a few dozen other parts needed. > >So 20 psi is out of the question for a stock engine, unless >you want to scrape what's left of the turbo off the inside of >the engine compartment. > >Now I could believe 20 psi with a turbo upgrade, new rods >(shot peened), metal head gasket, blueprinted balanced >forged pistons, (the crank should be OK stock), beefed up >injectors, (the ones on the supra will work OK), and Jacobs >wires and a Crane HI6 ignition, and you just might have it. > >Otherwise, 20 psi, sure, for a minute or two, then the stock >engine would be ready for the scrap heap. > >I would have to see a long history of engine performance >at this 20 psi boost level before believing this. > >Any examples, names of people that normally run their MR2 >at this level, email addresses, so I could talk with them >would be appreciated. > >I would very much like to find out more about these >"serious MR2s" > >Thanks. > >(1993 MR2 Turbo 15 psi boost) and having fun. When the word stock was used about this particular MR2, it was towards the internals. You're absolutely right.... the stock ECU is only good for 17 psi, and that's with the upgraded turbo. But I wasn't talking about a STOCK EFI setup. Most MR2 owners locally are junking their stock injectors anyways (430cc) with 550cc units and changing the PROM in their VPC. By the way, the Supra uses 430cc stock also. My car (4AGZT) has STOCK crank (untouched), STOCK rods (untouched), and Venolia pistons. I'm using 500cc Injectors which is controlled by an Electromotive TECII and boosting 24 psi. Oh, it's been running strong for 4 years now with no problems. In fact, it's been run continuously at 24 psi on a chassis dyno (if that's not abusing a motor, I don't know what is). Email me if you have any other questions. I wish I could give you a Email listing of most of these other cars pushing the magic 20 psi, but most of them don't even own a computer, so the internet is out of the question. If you can get a back issue of Turbo Magazine (March 1995), you'll see another MR2 turbo with 500+ horsepower (Running a MoTec Engine Management and 100 shot direct port nitrous). Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger Cyber Racing, So. Cal. ------------------------------ From: uunet!softy.softwords.bc.ca!geoff Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 13:50:32 PST Subject: Re: 12 second MR2 >From "Marc L. Summers" >> From: uunet!touch.caltech.edu!charlesg (Charles Grosjean) >> a stock-looking (except for some lowering) '93T that ran a 12.27 quarter >> mile. It was the fastest turbocharged import at some drag race. It had an >> aftermarket turbo and intercooler, but the engine internals were stock. It >> was running 20 psi of boost, which sounds awfully high for a stock engine. > > Do you know this for a fact? According to the article, no internal modification were done. However, looking at the few pictures of the engine, serious external mods were done... > I find it very hard to believe that a stock engine could withstand > 20 psi of boost for any length of time and still hold together. > He should be blowing head gaskets, and burning pistons. > Also I find it hard to believe that the stock injectors could deliver > sufficient fuel. The article says the injectors were upgraded to 550cc ones (what's stock?) > No, I seriously doubt that this engine was anywhere near stock. Here's the list of mods (as much as I can remember) - aftermarket turbo (I think it was a custom built unit) - external wastegate (Turbonetics?) - GReddy blow-off value - GReddy intercooler - HKS EVC - Engine management system (custom programmed) - 550cc injectors - All air intake lines wrapped in heat reflective tape - EGR removed (empty holder bracket viewed in photo) I'll scan the few engine photos and put them in the FTP area soon. Geoff '91t, 156,500km ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!CybrRacn54 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:47:28 -0500 Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 In a message dated 95-11-14 07:21:34 EST, you write: > >I'd like to know whether extrude honing the intake manifold yields good >improvement in performance. I understand that TVIS really restricts power >increases and some two racers dump the Fuel injection for Twin webers (or at >least the NA owners). So, for the NA, does it increase performance >significantly? How about extrude honing as a way of porting the cylinder >head? >Is it possible to buy an extrude honed intake manifold? How much does it >set you back? > >Adrian >85 Mk I >Lotus Silver Frost > > Any increase in CFM is always a benefit. Just don't go overboard and enlarge the ports to a point where air velocity is reduced, causing a loss in torque. Extrude Honing removes just enough material to improve airflow. They also do head work. I remember the first time I read about Extrude Honing and the article showed them working on a 4AGE. I'm not sure if they offer an exchange type deal, but give them a call at (310) 531-2976. It usually costs around $350 depending on the application. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger Cyber Racing. So. Cal. ------------------------------ From: "Burns, James B." Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 12:11:00 EST Subject: Modified NA Power We hear lots of stories of the turbo cars with the boost turned way up generating gobs of horsepower, but I was wondering how much power people were getting out of the NA and SC engines. I would think that the MKII 2.2L with a mild overbore, cams, headers, and a sophisticated engine management system (such as Electromotive) could generate close to 200 HP pretty reliably, and with no turbo lag. Anyone out there have a hot, modified non-turbo MR2? What mods did you do, and how much power do you estimate for the various mods? Brad Burns ------------------------------ From: uunet!dexter.psych.umn.edu!manser Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:52:56 +0000 Subject: comments and ? Comment- Hello all, I am new to the digest but have been lurking quite frequently on the MR-2 home page (quite an impressive page). I own a plain 86, black and tan (sounds like a beer I once had) interior, and champange exterior. I have owned several small sporty cars in the past including two MG's and a ragtop TR7. The MR-2 is the best car by far. Question- As of late I have been experiencing spotty/rough acceleration. During acceleration it is almost as if the car is under half power, then all of a sudden it will kick up to full power. THis is not a one time phenomenom, but rather like a lurching several times. This only occurs after the vehicle has had time to warm up. If it was a non-electronic ignition of years past my first guess would be condensor/coil combination. I have checked the FAQ lists and found no information. Can anyone point me to a FAQ list or venture a couple guesses? car goes in the shop wed. Mike Michael P. Manser Human Factors Research Laboratory University of Minnesota manser@reality.psych.umn.edu 612.626.7521 ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!CybrRacn54 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:51:04 -0500 Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 In a message dated 95-11-14 07:21:34 EST, you write: >Do you know this for a fact? >I find it very hard to believe that a stock engine could withstand >20 psi of boost for any length of time and still hold together. >He should be blowing head gaskets, and burning pistons. >Also I find it hard to believe that the stock injectors could deliver >sufficient fuel. > >No, I seriously doubt that this engine was anywhere near stock. > > Yes, THAT'S A FACT! Yes.... it's hard to believe.... but it's TRUE. Facts: 550cc Injectors Turbonetics T04B turbo Accel DFI Engine Management - - removes factory air/flow meter - no intake restriction - runs on reprogrammed fuel & ignition maps Greddy Intercooler (this and the larger turbo makes intake charge temperatures drop considerably) Now.... with the injectors (good for 400 hp) supplying enough fuel and the DFI Engine Management maintaining the PROPER fuel ratios and ignition maps, 20 + psi is a REALITY. Also, you'll be amazed on how much Toyota overbuilds they're bottom ends. Like I mentioned in a previous post, the only limiting factor in 3SGTEs are the cast pistons. The crank and rods can usually take a good load of horsepower as long as you don't over rev the engine. Well... the car is not totally stock, but the necessary equipment is there without any internal work. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger Cyber Racing, Southern California ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!CybrRacn54 Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 12:47:24 -0500 Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #30 In a message dated 95-11-14 07:21:34 EST, you write: > >So is anyone using one of the HKS EVC units? What exactly is the advantage >of that over one of the much cheaper mechanical boost controlers? Don't they >both essentially adjust the point where boost is limited by the wastegate? > > The EVC forces the wastegate shut until maximum set boost is achieved, thus making boost response considerably quicker. Mechanical (or pnuematic) controls slowly opens the wastegate until maximum boost arrives, basically like a stock wastegate, just with a higher setting. Another advantage is the EVC has manifold feedback, so boost is consistant. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger ------------------------------ From: dean Date: Tue, 14 Nov 95 13:10:17 -0600 Subject: MKI leaking water pump It appears that the water pump on my '85 has started to leak coolant. It runs down the engine and steams from the w/p pulley area. Have any of you experienced a similar problem? What kind of job am I in for if I replace the pump? Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Dean G. ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #31