mr2-digest Tuesday, 24 October 1995 Volume 01 : Number 010 $LIST Re: Brakes Lighting the brake pads! 15x7 wheels and tire width A destructive test on 3SGTE head bolts Re: me/mine/mods Re: Tornado digest fronter and footer NADA damn thing Re: mr2-digest V1 #9 That was just a Toyota!?!? MR2 Shop Manuals License plate frames ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: uunet!aol.com!LUKYDUCK Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 19:06:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Brakes ------------------------------ From: Stuart Smith Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 14:30:21 BST Subject: Lighting the brake pads! Well this was a first for me... Usually I have a few mad runs at the weekend around the roads in Suffolk provided it's dry..you know, really going for it, 120+ down to 10, etc many times round roundabouts, country roads, overtaking 5-6 cars at a time down single carraige roads, etc..Usual nutter stuff... Anyway, point is, usually when I get back and get out of the car all you can smell is brake pads and that sort of smell you get off hot metal..alloys are too hot to even touch, etc....But Saturday was a first.... After finishing my 'Death Wish XX' 20 miles slalom, I got back to the house, and got out the car, and smoke was coming from the rear offside pads!! The brake disc was still vauguely glowing! I must have actually lit it up F1 style.. COOOOLL! Anyway..it's not dome any damage, so same next weekend? Anyone else managed this? Stu ------------------------------ From: "Gary Friedman" Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 19:49:18 +0000 Subject: 15x7 wheels and tire width The previous owner of my car replaced the factory alloys with ICW 15x7 wheels all around (no 15x6 up front). I just replaced my rear tires (225-50-15) with Dunlop Sport 8000s. The Dunlop spec for rim width (from their web page http://www.dunloptire.com) was 6" on the rears. This is less than the 7" rim width that most other 225-50-15s specify (ie. D40M2, AVS). I need to replace the front tires soon (205-50-15), also with 8000s. Dunlop specs state a 5.5" for rim width--again thinner than most others of same size. If I still had the factory 15x6 wheels it would be close enough. But... I am wondering if my 15x7 front wheels may be a bit too wide for these tires. I'm not as worried about the rears as I am about the fronts. Dunlop's 1-800 people said 7" was still well within range for the rim width for the rear tires, but they hesitated before they said 7" was okay for the fronts at a 205-50-15 size. Can I go up to a 215-50-15 in the front (specs = 6" rim, better than 5.5" on the 205) or would it be like racing slicks in wet weather?? What do the tire experts on the list think about this Dunlop dilemma?? I never thought I would be asking if an inch or so makes such a difference, but does it :)) ?? Why are Dunlops specs for this tire different than almost every other ZR of the same size?? Wish I still had my factory wheels!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gary ------------------------------ From: uunet!sitka.triumf.ca!solu (Richard Soluk) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 17:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: A destructive test on 3SGTE head bolts For anyone interested in installing a metal head gasket or trying to increase the amount of clamping force on the head to compensate for running high boost I just did some destructive testing on the head bolts for my MkII. Using new bolts and taking them to the factory 36 foot-pounds plus a 90 degree turn gives 60-70 foot-pounds of torque (there is variation between bolts). Toyota takes these bolts right to their yield limit. Turning the bolts 180 degrees only gives roughly another 5 foot-pounds. Turning them a full 360 degrees after the 36 ft-pb mark only requires 10 more ft-pb of torque. And if turned far enough the bolts will snap at around 80 ft-pbs. What happens is that after the 90 degree mark the bolt starts to stretch, with a neck forming in the middle of the bolt (still in the threaded portion but well outside of the block). The bolts are fairly ductile, they'll stretch over 1.5mm before they break. And on the three bolts I tested there was no damage to the threads in the block. (I of course used blocks or iron and aluminum to simulate the engine, I didn't actually risk snapping bolts in my engine block! :-) There are two points to this: 1. You don't need to worry about breaking bolts off in your engine unless you get an insane mechanic who twists it over a full turn extra 2. There is nothing to be gained by trying to over-torque the bolts, they can't supply any more clamping force then they already do (this is not good news for those of us trying to produce high horsepower). ...Richard ------------------------------ From: uunet!singnet.com.sg!adrian01 (Adrian Heng) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 17:18:02 +0800 Subject: Re: me/mine/mods Ramzi sez: Any reccomendations for a spring that is good for >autocros and easy to live with on the street? Have you considered Koni springs & shocks? I have a friend with those fitted. Minimal body roll with moderate loss of comfort. It lowers the car about 2 inches I think... It certainly lowers it more than my Trust-GREX setup. Looks nice! Adrian 85 Mk I Lotus Silver Frost ------------------------------ From: uunet!singnet.com.sg!adrian01 (Adrian Heng) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 17:18:05 +0800 Subject: Re: Tornado >Could be that all the above may take place...but we have to see that the MR2 >has a plenum into which the ait is getting in. This plenum has two ducts per >cylinder, of which one works on low speeds and two (both) work at high >speeds. Also it has distinct injectors, one per cylinder. If the incoming >air received some kind of turbulence, by the time it entered the plenum, >changed direction of travel, reached the injection point select the >duct/ducts and enter the cylinders....the turbulence may long be gone. > >I will say this aoce more...it is testing with test equipment that can >verify if there is a gain or not. Sorry for taking so long to answer. I was speaking quite generally about the device actually. I am aware of the TVIS's restrictions. In fact, I have read that it is a major curb on the horsepower gains on a MkI NA. So the effectiveness of the device may be somewhat negated because of the TVIS system. I will probably have to agree with you on that one. Adrian 85 Mk I Lotus Silver Frost ------------------------------ From: dgh (David G. Hough at validgh) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 19:46:08 PDT Subject: digest fronter and footer Per popular request, majordomo features that enable a list of subjects at the beginning of the digest, and an "------------ End of digest ------------" at the end, have been enabled starting with this issue. undigester scripts may require modification. ------------------------------ From: Megalon Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:28:39 EDT Subject: NADA damn thing >From the September 1995 Eastern Edition NADA booklet... Doesn't list prices for 1995. 1994 Trd-in Loan Retail NA 15600 14050 18050 TC 5 speed 18500 16650 21225 ---Add--- Cruise Ctrl 175 CD Player 225 Phone 175 Cust Wheels 225 Removbl Roof* 800 Pwr Sunroof 550 Pwr Windows 175 Pwr Locks 125 Power Seat 175 Leather Seats 350 ABS 350 Alarm 325 ---Deduct--- Manual Tran 600 No Pwr Steer 175 No Air Cond * 700 * Standard on Turbo 1993 Trd-in Loan Retail NA 13075 11775 15400 TC 5 speed 15575 14025 18025 ---Add--- Cruise Ctrl 150 CD Player 200 Phone 125 Cust Wheels 200 Removbl Roof* 700 Man Sunroof 275 Pwr Sunroof 500 Pwr Windows 150 Pwr Locks 100 Power Seat 150 Leather Seats 325 ABS 300 Alarm 250 ---Deduct--- Manual Tran 550 No Pwr Steer 150 No Air Cond * 650 * Standard on Turbo 1992 Trd-in Loan Retail NA 11575 10425 13750 TC 5 speed 12625 11375 14925 ---Add--- Cruise Ctrl 125 CD Player 175 Phone 100 Cust Wheels 175 Removbl Roof* 625 Man Sunroof 225 Pwr Sunroof 450 Pwr Windows 125 Pwr Locks 75 Power Seat 125 Leather Seats 275 ABS 250 ---Deduct--- Manual Tran 500 No Pwr Steer 125 No Air Cond * 600 * Standard on Turbo 1991 Trd-in Loan Retail NA 9775 8800 11800 TC 5 speed 10750 9675 12875 ---Add--- Cruise Ctrl 100 CD Player 125 Phone 50 Cust Wheels 150 Removbl Roof* 575 Man Sunroof 175 Pwr Sunroof 400 Pwr Windows 100 Pwr Locks 50 Power Seat 100 Leather Seats 225 ABS 200 ---Deduct--- Manual Tran 450 No Pwr Steer 100 No Air Cond * 550 * Standard on Turbo 1990 Not Listed... 1989 Trd-in Loan Retail NA 6075 5475 7775 SuperCharged 7050 6350 8825 ---Add--- Removbl Roof** 425 ---Deduct--- Manual Tran 350 No Air Cond 450 ** Standard with SuperCharger 1988 Trd-in Loan Retail NA 4400 3975 5900 SuperCharged 5350 4825 6975 Sorry, 1988 is the last year listed for all you 1985 to 87 owners. ------------------------------ From: uunet!aol.com!CybrRacn54 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:49:05 -0400 Subject: Re: mr2-digest V1 #9 In a message dated 95-10-23 09:27:34 EDT, you write: >I guess the Japanese MR2 has another engine choice besides >our familiar 5SFE, 3SGTE, and 3SGE: DOHC 20-valve 1.6L 4cyl, >making 158hp @ 7400rpm. that's the 4AG 20 valve engine. TRD has an exploded view of it in an older shop catalog. Gerald San Agustin 88 Twincharger ------------------------------ From: uunet!getnet.com!doug (Doug Hutter) Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:57:29 -0700 (MST) Subject: That was just a Toyota!?!? Had occasion to take the MR2 to Tucson this weekend, which is not really much fun: the interstate from Phoenix to Tucson is the perfect candidate for an automated highway -- flat straight ribbon of divided 4- and 6-lane, replete with Arizona's finest and their radar guns. Traffic flows at about 70-75, with occasional bursts of speed to pass slugs and 18-wheelers. The return trip was another story. I opted for the old Florence highway, SR 79, a flat, straight stretch of 2-lane that runs 42 miles thru the desert between Oracle and Florence. Posted limit is 55, the surface is good, traffic is light, county sheriffs are few. I've done this route in my Olds Silhouette any number of times with the cruise set at 75, and always longed for more speed. Yesterday I found it. Cruising at about 90, we came upon a few cars backed up behind a 60-mph pickup. Last in line was a red Corvette which, when the way was clear, passed the 2 or 3 cars in front. So did we. He took it back up to about 90. So did we. Each time he passed, we did too, but we stayed behind him, a respectful 2 or 3 seconds. Given the front view of the '95 MKII with a bra covering any markings, I don't think the 'vette driver knew for sure what was behind him. Soon the speeds increased. Whatever he did, we stayed right behind him, til we came to a long straight section. He passed a sedan and put his foot to the floor. I was in 4th for the overtaking, so I took up to about 6000 rpm, hit fifth on the fly, and dropped right back on his bumper at 120 mph. We had to slow for another car, but as soon as the road was open, we were both back to 110. He gradually slowed to about 70 but I stayed behind him, cause I didn't want to *have to* find out if I could overtake him if he didn't want me to. And there was a speck on the highway up ahead that we were gaining on. I don't have a radar detector, and I had no idea whether or not he did, so I was being a little cautious. But I thought he was slowing to see what I'd do. Turned out to be a 70-per, Sunday driver, which the 'vette passed. I too, passed, then just stayed in the left lane and let it rip. Passed the 'vette at about 110, took it up past 120 and kept going til he was barely discernable in my rear view. Over the next five miles or so, I gradually slowed to about 80, and he closed the gap but never bothered to overtake. When the highway split at Florence, he headed left, we headed right. I'm pretty sure that when we passed him, I heard him say to his passenger "You mean that was just a TOYOTA???" Most fun I've ever had on a Tucson trip! The MR2 really hugs the road, feels as stable at 120+ as it does at 70. Plenty of pickup, power and top-end for passing whatever is up ahead. Now I'm looking forward to a road with some curves! DOUG HUTTER PHOENIX, AZ 1995 Turbo 4k mi __@ __O DOUG HUTTER _-\<,-\<,_ doug@getnet.com PHOENIX, AZ (*)/---/ (*) fax: 602/276-0794 ------------------------------ From: uunet!csc.com!ghillike Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 17:00:45 PDT Subject: MR2 Shop Manuals ** GENERAL INFORMATION ** I have seen several postings requesting information about workshop manuals for the MR2. They are available from Toyota @ 1.800.622.2033. Prices (for MKII): $35 - Engine & Drive Train 40 - Chassis & Body ($35 for pre 8/92 mfg) 20 - Electrical (chassis manual has some electrical) I hope this helps the DIYers in the crowd. gth PS...They take MC & VISA! (:^) - ------------------------------------------------- George T. Hilliker Computer Sciences Corporation Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 13:49:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: License plate frames As of 10/23/95 there are no more license plate frames. That's right I actually sold 200 of these bad boys. I still can't believe that they were in such demand. When I started this back in May I figured on about 30 people wanting them and I ended up selling 200. Go fig. So unless you have been sent a reply to your request for frames do not send me any money. I will wait about a week or so for all the checks to show up and then I will notify the group of any extras. Also I finally got around to getting the pictures developed from the Naperville picnic. I will scan in a few and send them to Geoff for the web page. Yeah I know the picnic was back in August, but I've been busy or lazy depending on who you talk to. On a darker note my car will be put away for the winter with the rusted off exhaust. Hopefully time and money willing I will have the turbo on for the spring. Now who is holding the rally next summer? Carl '89 NA maybe a T but not going anywhere anytime soon ------------------------------ End of mr2-digest V1 #10